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Original poster

Rock and a hard place - My dog and new baby

707 replies

Lemondrop09 · 26/02/2017 10:29

Perhaps AIBU is the wrong place to post this, as people can be very scathing. Please be honest but gentle with me!

Sorry this is so long.....

I rescued my dog over 7 years ago, when he was 8 months old. He'll be 8 years old in a few months time. He is a large cross breed (two guard breeds) and weighs over 40kg. He was poorly bred and poorly socialised and has been mentally screwed up by his bad start. He had multiple homes in his short life before coming to us. He did not go through a proper rescue centre and if he had a proper behavioural assessment, I strongly suspect he would have been put down. He would not have been rehomable - not because he's excessively aggressive, but few rescues will home dogs with even the slightest aggression.

His aggression is fear based. He's scared of strangers and other dogs. If properly introduced to a person or another dog, he's fine. In fact, he's a total baby and as soon as you have his trust, he'll love you forever. We spent so much time and money over the years on behaviourists, trainers and socialisation classes. He improved a lot, but he will always be difficult. We always walk him on lead and usually muzzled (as a precaution, he's never actually bitten anyone, the muzzle in more in case of other dogs) and actively avoid other dogs on walks. Walking him is stressful, but we mostly get out and back without incident. We do not bother introducing him to any people he does not need to know, instead we usually shut him away when we have visitors. However if we have overnight guests, he can be successfully introduced with a bit of time and lots of sausage!

Ok, so here's the main issue. When I got him seven years ago, I was not remotely thinking about children and had also expected an 8 month old puppy to turn into a normal dog with enough effort. I underestimated how much genetics would play and that he would never be normal. I thought I could turn him around completely. I couldn't,

I am now pregnant with our first child, although it's early days. It's been a very hard time as I've had hypermesis gravardium and have been (and still am) very unwell. I haven't got out of bed in weeks, and DH is working full time, running the household and sorting out dog. We normally split the dog walking (as Neither of us enjoy doing it due to stress) but he's done it every single day without complaining, even though I know it makes him miserable. I feel awful about it.

Both my SILs and MIL have never had any time for our dog. They aren't animal people and can't forgive him for his issues. As such, we have never introduced him to them. I find them quick to judge him and they all clearly think we should simply get rid of him. Now I'm pregnant, they've already started asking us about what we're going to do. It's so upsetting that I've asked DH to tell them to lay off.

Thing is, DH and I have known for a while that we would need to make a decision eventually, and we've had circular discussions but there's no easy answer.

We've tried for this baby for over a year and it's very much wanted. It's going to be hard enough have a newborn, without the stress about whether or not our own pet will harm it. Also (a more minor issue), our dog can be demanding and pushy. When he wants a walk or food, he will pace and whine, and drive you crackers. This behaviour when I'm sleep deprived with a screaming newborn is likely to push me over the edge.

DH is likely to have to pick up the dog walking for the majority of the time, as I cannot safely walk my dog and a buggy as I need two hands if an off lead dog approaches us (I might be able to cope with a sling, but still doesn't feel safe to carry a newborn and potentially deal with a dog spat). Getting a dog walker is not really an option, as our dog needs 1:1 care from someone who can handle him. I got this dog before DH came along, he's had a very difficult dog thrust on him which he wouldn't have chosen. DH does so well with our dog, but I know he does it for me.

I've tried to consider whether it would be realistic to keep the dog separate from baby during the day? Then let the dog out with us in the evenings? Once the baby has settled and is bigger there's a chance they could be introduced carefully.

Or can they? As I said, my dog is only scared of the unknown and very good when he trusts. The home he came to before is had 3 children under 10 and he was fine with them, but that was years ago. He has never shown aggression to a child, but then again we've never let him very near to them. He's a darling with us, and I do think he has the potential to be fine with our child who will be familiar and constant to him.

But how the hell do we ever find that out? Can I really actually try introducing dog and baby, or is it too risky? I feel like it might be irresponsible to even try.

He's a big strong dog. He occasionally jumps on us if he gets excited. He's heavy and his claws are sharp. He has hurt us both without meaning to. He could easily knock a toddler over, even if being friendly.

Thing is, I love my dog. Nightmare he is, but he's my nightmare and I'm responsible for him. I never wanted to be that person to turf out their pet because a baby turned up. My worries are genuinely to do with safety and whether this situation is manageable.

Thing is, even if we decide we can't do it, he would be impossible to rehome. There are thousands of perfectly nice dogs who can't find homes. My dog will be 8 years old, with aggression issues and also expensive seasonal allergies. Literally, no one would want him. I've had professionals say to be "he's lucky he has you, because I wouldn't put up with him!". I don't want to rehome him, but even if I decide to, I really think we would struggle to find him a home. He'd hate being stuck in kennels long term as he'd be so stressed, and I fear a rescue centre would simply put him down.

If we can't keep him, and no one will take him, the only other option would be to have him put to sleep - which is unthinkable.

I feel totally stuck between a rock and a hard place. DH and I have had this conversation so many times and never come up with an answer, because there isn't one! I think deep down I know it would be difficult, if not impossible, to manage such a situation safely. But I can't bear the idea of turfing out an elderly troubled dog and where on Earth would he go?!

So please be gentle. I'm pregnant, hormonal and ill, and I love my dog very much. So please be honest, but I can't handle a flaming right now.

OP posts:
1frenchfoodie · 26/02/2017 11:07

You sound as though you have the patience, foresight and understanding of your dog to make this work. We had to keep one of our dogs (over excitable spaniel cross) completely separate from our 11 month old for 8+ months. He would be in his crate in the living room with us or the other side of a baby gate. No aggression issues, he is just over exuberant, would lick her, knocker her over by accident and would probably trample on her if it meant getting to a bluebottle flying past (he is obsessed with them...). Even now they only interact through a stairgate if DH or I are not right by her side.

It has been very doable. Walking 2 dogs with a pram is rarely doable so DH and I tag team - 1 has baby, other has dogs - for walks. DD loves both dogs and has learnt to pat and not pull hair but tbh the dogs have very little love for her, it is the adults that walk and feed them and us they greet etc.

ILikeBeansWithKetchup · 26/02/2017 11:07

Not really answering the question but I honestly never knew you could put a pet to sleep if it isn't unwell (other than obviously when a dog has attacked as we sometimes see in the news; this dog hasn't). Would a vet actually do that? I find that faintly unethical, and certainly sad.

That said, I wouldn't risk a baby's life. And I can understand you not wanting to risk seeing how it goes.

Not obviously quite the same thing but my previous cat was terrible around anyone male , apart from my DH. She scratched d a vet's eyeball once and was cat non grata at the vets. They had a note on screen that said WATCH THOSE CLAWS!!

My anxiety definitely transferred to her when I had DH1 and this is what would worry you. My cat's response was to sulk and hide away and become a pointless pet, poor thing. My DCs never, therefore, has any sort of relationship with her and I tended to keep them apart. Poor cat eventually was PTS as she developed a horrible brain tumour. We now have two cats who are gentle and cuddly because they were socialised to children as kittens.

I empathise with your anxiety 0 but I think you will be very concerned after the baby is born. To be honest any dog around a baby can be dangerous and at least you aren't complacent, unlike in some of the tragic cases you read about, I very much doubt you would veer leave your baby alone with your dog..

I'd at least attempt to rehome...

DonkeyofDoom · 26/02/2017 11:07

What's his prey drive like? The biggest concern with a new baby is that the dog views it as a cat/squirrel whatever. It squeaks and squirms and that triggers the prey drive. That's the usual scenario with dogs mauling tiny babies. If your dog is high prey drive and goes after cats etc with a vengeance I do think you have to find him another home. Baby gates can be got round and in a sleep deprived state you may not shut one.

Do you have a friend with a baby? If you do I'd muzzle him keep on a very tight lead with at least one other adult in the room and let him slowly get closer to the baby. But you're going to need a really good friend for that one! How does he react when you walk near play parks? Kids on scooters? Etc?

Does he resource guard? Can you take food off him? Possessive of his bed? Those are the issues with older babies/children. If a toddler had him cornered how would he react?

I'd probably be inclined to at least give him a chance with the baby if you're going to have enough adults to support/help you. But I would only put the baby down in a Moses basket etc behind a shut door and a baby gate.

When DC4 was born DH left her in her Moses basket in the kitchen with our very bomb proof 11 year old 60kg dog. He is very high prey drive but is on his 4th kid and in no way sees baby's as prey. A neighbourhood cat decided to come through our cat flap and all hell broke loose in the kitchen with our cats and dog flying about. DH in his panic threw himself over the bannister of the stairs to get back into the kitchen faster. Baby completely fine. The dog never even bumped the basket but it was a HUGE mistake on DHs part to leave the room with the baby unattended.

snarferson · 26/02/2017 11:06

I had 3 dogs. 2 "normal" and 1 as your dog is. He was very gobby and blustery but had never actually bitten but I made myself sick worrying about the exact situation you are in.

We kept all 3 in the end and when baby arrived we took things slowly introducing the dogs to the baby and as things would have it the nervous one took to her the most. He absolutely adored her.

However, as someone above as said the baby took up all our time and walking a reactive dog with a buggy was impossible so we knew it was cruel to keep him with no excersize. We were very lucky in that we found an experienced rural home to take him (gold dust).

My heart goes out to you I know exactly how hard it is Flowers.

littledinaco · 26/02/2017 11:06

Can you hire someone to take the dog for a couple of hours every day? Start now to see how it goes.

Maybe get a 'doll' or use a pillow or something. Keep the dog away and carry your doll around with you all day. Only let dog out when DH is there or DH takes the doll. It may give you an idea of what it will be like to keep the dog away constantly and also see how your dog reacts to being kept away all day, every day as it's different to being away while you're at work or when you has visitors.

You said 'he's nearly always fine' this isn't good enough, you really can't chance it.

I really feel for you OP, it's an awful situation to be in.

TitusAndromedon · 26/02/2017 11:05

I have a rescue dog with some aggression issues. His are entirely aimed at other animals (he loves all people), but I was certainly nervous about bringing home twins. As it happens, he is lovely with them. They are 15 months now and he is very good about just moving away when they enter his space. We give him lots of praise and we obviously keep a very close eye on all interactions. So, I think it can be done, but obviously all dogs are different. There is a Facebook group called Reactive Dogs (UK), which I would really recommend. There are licensed behaviourists and lots of people with experience in the group. If you posted your situation, I'm sure they would be able to give you some useful advice and ideas on how to proceed.

Zaphodsotherhead · 26/02/2017 11:04

Oh this made me cry (had my big dog PTS six months ago, for old age and illness, so not the same at all, but still affected me). There's no easy answer. I feel for you - it's so hard to make a decision based on the unknown. You don't yet know what it's going to be like to deal with a newborn, so you are basing things on how it is now dealing with your dog. Stairgates, btw, aren't an easy answer, most big dogs can get over them if sufficiently motivated... and would the baby be a motivation? You don't know.
I'd say, with a heavy heart, that having dog PTS would be the only way forward. He's demanding and difficult, and a baby is twice that. Factor in trying to keep them apart (and even the loveliest, sweetest dog can't be left alone with a baby), and you'll drive yourself mad.

HarryPottersMagicWand · 26/02/2017 11:03

When you read these awful stories about babies being killed by dogs that have never bitten, have always been fine, owner knows the dog well etc etc. That's this situation. Obviously the dog may be fine. But it may be not and the consequences are something you cannot take a chance with.

Fingalswave · 26/02/2017 11:01

Sorry, just seen that he is OK with loud noises and children screaming. Very difficult to judge then in that case, but that's the problem isn't it? If you, as the person along with your dh, who know and love him best have serious doubts and concerns, I doubt anyone on here can offer you better advice.

It sucks but it is so risky, and in your shoes, I think I would err on the side of caution.

Can't believe people are saying he's suitable for rehoming, or offering him for free on the Internet; both of which imho would be totally irresponsible.

Nearlyadoctor · 26/02/2017 11:00

In this situation I'm afraid I would have the dog pts. How would you ever live with yourself if something happened? There are no guarantees even if you were there you could prevent it or stop it if the dog is quite big.
The dog has had a marvellous home with you by the sound of it for the past 8 years and being a big dog is probably already at least two thirds through its natural lifespan.
I have every sympathy for you, but should something happen the consequences are unthinkable. You are being a responsible owner to be thinking this through now.

SPARKLYSTARSHINESBRIGHT · 26/02/2017 11:00

It's a tough one. I had my lame horse PTS 2 weeks before my DD3 was born. I loved him to bits but couldn't ride him (arthritis) or catch him unless he was in a very small paddock alone. He was miserable alone, nervous of people, I had spent hours and hours over 15 years gaining his trust. I just couldn't devote the time to him that he needed with 3 young children and the leaving the children in the car on a country lane whilst I chased him round the field to catch him.
It's a tough decision but I think you need to let him go and have him PTS. The next phase of your life will be different, I don't think you can trust your dog and you need to keep your baby safe, it could only take a few seconds... Things will seem clearer once your baby comes along and your baby will take priority.

OneLumpOrSeven · 26/02/2017 11:00

If the dog hurts your child he'll have to be pts. I've seen enough dog bites in my years as a nurse and it's always unpleasant.

Original poster
Lemondrop09 · 26/02/2017 10:58

Wolfie, we do hire a field for him to run in. In fact, he's there with DH right now. It's a bit of a drive so he only gets there on weekends, but it helps.

OP posts:
formerbabe · 26/02/2017 10:58

I wouldn't risk keeping the dog. Your baby must come first.

LovingLola · 26/02/2017 10:57

Your dog weighs over 40kg. He would very easily topple over a travel cot. If he ever did launch an attack (I realise he has never done this) would you be physically able to stop him?

Coastalcommand · 26/02/2017 10:56

I don't think you'll know until the baby arrives. I have two dogs who adore me but are scared of strangers. I've had to play it by ear with the baby and as it happened the dogs absolutely adore LO And completely understand the whole pack dynamic. Please don't do anything before your baby arrives, as you don't know what the situation will be like.

That1950sMum · 26/02/2017 10:55

I feel incredibly sorry for you as you're in a horrible situation, but you have to get rid of the dog. You know that right?

It will be upsetting, but your baby's safety comes first.

OneLumpOrSeven · 26/02/2017 10:55

Babies often don't settle though. As a newborn you could be feeding every 2 hours 24 hours a day. That's normal. I had a Velcro baby with reflux who wouldn't be put down. So you may not have the time you think you do.

Original poster
Lemondrop09 · 26/02/2017 10:55

If a new person scares him, he lunges. It's scary to see him do, but it's a lot of noise and bluster. Problem is, he doesn't growl or warn. He does tense up, but he can just react. And he's tall enough to reach my arms if I was holding a baby.

That said, if introduced slowly, he's nearly always fine as long a we follow his routine. Barriers, time to consider the situation and lots of food.

OP posts:
littledinaco · 26/02/2017 10:54

My dog was used to us both working full time but I think it's different separating him when you're at home.

You will need to be with your baby 24 hours a day.

Giving dog attention in the evening-baby will need massive amounts of attention. Evening is typically when they are fussy/unsettled.

It's so hard OP but is it more cruel on the dog to keep him separated? I don't know.

Fingalswave · 26/02/2017 10:54

I think the baby gate separation option could possibly work until your child starts crawling and then walking but it would be a nightmare thereafter. I don't know what to say because he might be fine, but there is a strong chance he might not. And it's very risky to take that chsnce. Children do loud and unpredictable things and if your dog is fear aggressive, he will probably react badly to that. I'm sorry, and I say this as a dog lover with a fear (mildly) aggressive dog, but in your case I think I would be considering euthanasia. Flowers

Wolfiefan · 26/02/2017 10:53

Stair gates would keep your child and dog apart.
How about hiring a safe field. (Look
On website?) fenced off and individual use. No other dogs to worry about. You can hire one and let him run off lead.

Original poster
Lemondrop09 · 26/02/2017 10:53

The constant demands of a newborn thing does bother me. While this is primarily a safety issue, I admit my dog is hard work and I'm worried that he'll make a very difficult time so much harder. I've seen my most relaxed friends pushed to the edge in those first few months. I would never rehome my dog for being an inconvenience, but I would be lying if I didn't admit he is going to make things even harder. I do also worry that he'll be miserable over getting so little attention.

OP posts:
SouthWestmom · 26/02/2017 10:53

What is his behaviour though?

With new people what does he do?

That would be my thinking - if he slinks off and hides that's one thing but if he tries to attack/growls etc than it's a no brained to pts - tired and sleepy and not thinking straight it would take one lapse for a possibly fatal outcome.

Apfelbunny · 26/02/2017 10:52

If you were introducing another dog I'd say give it a go and it might be ok, but not worth the risk with a baby.
It's a large dog vs a small baby.

A rehoming centre will at least try to find him a suitable home before they consider putting him down, they'll have the time and resources to make that decision so it's the sensible thing to do in my mind. Once baby comes along you won't have the time and you can't watch the dog all day to keep it away from the baby.
I know you'll feel bad taking him to be rehomed but it's the kindest thing to do for him, and clearly you love him or you wouldn't of asked for help and he would of been another abandoned dog. You're giving him a chance at another chapter in his life.
Maybe once baby comes and is settled you can get a more suitable dog.