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Rock and a hard place - My dog and new baby

707 replies

Lemondrop09 · 26/02/2017 10:29

Perhaps AIBU is the wrong place to post this, as people can be very scathing. Please be honest but gentle with me!

Sorry this is so long.....

I rescued my dog over 7 years ago, when he was 8 months old. He'll be 8 years old in a few months time. He is a large cross breed (two guard breeds) and weighs over 40kg. He was poorly bred and poorly socialised and has been mentally screwed up by his bad start. He had multiple homes in his short life before coming to us. He did not go through a proper rescue centre and if he had a proper behavioural assessment, I strongly suspect he would have been put down. He would not have been rehomable - not because he's excessively aggressive, but few rescues will home dogs with even the slightest aggression.

His aggression is fear based. He's scared of strangers and other dogs. If properly introduced to a person or another dog, he's fine. In fact, he's a total baby and as soon as you have his trust, he'll love you forever. We spent so much time and money over the years on behaviourists, trainers and socialisation classes. He improved a lot, but he will always be difficult. We always walk him on lead and usually muzzled (as a precaution, he's never actually bitten anyone, the muzzle in more in case of other dogs) and actively avoid other dogs on walks. Walking him is stressful, but we mostly get out and back without incident. We do not bother introducing him to any people he does not need to know, instead we usually shut him away when we have visitors. However if we have overnight guests, he can be successfully introduced with a bit of time and lots of sausage!

Ok, so here's the main issue. When I got him seven years ago, I was not remotely thinking about children and had also expected an 8 month old puppy to turn into a normal dog with enough effort. I underestimated how much genetics would play and that he would never be normal. I thought I could turn him around completely. I couldn't,

I am now pregnant with our first child, although it's early days. It's been a very hard time as I've had hypermesis gravardium and have been (and still am) very unwell. I haven't got out of bed in weeks, and DH is working full time, running the household and sorting out dog. We normally split the dog walking (as Neither of us enjoy doing it due to stress) but he's done it every single day without complaining, even though I know it makes him miserable. I feel awful about it.

Both my SILs and MIL have never had any time for our dog. They aren't animal people and can't forgive him for his issues. As such, we have never introduced him to them. I find them quick to judge him and they all clearly think we should simply get rid of him. Now I'm pregnant, they've already started asking us about what we're going to do. It's so upsetting that I've asked DH to tell them to lay off.

Thing is, DH and I have known for a while that we would need to make a decision eventually, and we've had circular discussions but there's no easy answer.

We've tried for this baby for over a year and it's very much wanted. It's going to be hard enough have a newborn, without the stress about whether or not our own pet will harm it. Also (a more minor issue), our dog can be demanding and pushy. When he wants a walk or food, he will pace and whine, and drive you crackers. This behaviour when I'm sleep deprived with a screaming newborn is likely to push me over the edge.

DH is likely to have to pick up the dog walking for the majority of the time, as I cannot safely walk my dog and a buggy as I need two hands if an off lead dog approaches us (I might be able to cope with a sling, but still doesn't feel safe to carry a newborn and potentially deal with a dog spat). Getting a dog walker is not really an option, as our dog needs 1:1 care from someone who can handle him. I got this dog before DH came along, he's had a very difficult dog thrust on him which he wouldn't have chosen. DH does so well with our dog, but I know he does it for me.

I've tried to consider whether it would be realistic to keep the dog separate from baby during the day? Then let the dog out with us in the evenings? Once the baby has settled and is bigger there's a chance they could be introduced carefully.

Or can they? As I said, my dog is only scared of the unknown and very good when he trusts. The home he came to before is had 3 children under 10 and he was fine with them, but that was years ago. He has never shown aggression to a child, but then again we've never let him very near to them. He's a darling with us, and I do think he has the potential to be fine with our child who will be familiar and constant to him.

But how the hell do we ever find that out? Can I really actually try introducing dog and baby, or is it too risky? I feel like it might be irresponsible to even try.

He's a big strong dog. He occasionally jumps on us if he gets excited. He's heavy and his claws are sharp. He has hurt us both without meaning to. He could easily knock a toddler over, even if being friendly.

Thing is, I love my dog. Nightmare he is, but he's my nightmare and I'm responsible for him. I never wanted to be that person to turf out their pet because a baby turned up. My worries are genuinely to do with safety and whether this situation is manageable.

Thing is, even if we decide we can't do it, he would be impossible to rehome. There are thousands of perfectly nice dogs who can't find homes. My dog will be 8 years old, with aggression issues and also expensive seasonal allergies. Literally, no one would want him. I've had professionals say to be "he's lucky he has you, because I wouldn't put up with him!". I don't want to rehome him, but even if I decide to, I really think we would struggle to find him a home. He'd hate being stuck in kennels long term as he'd be so stressed, and I fear a rescue centre would simply put him down.

If we can't keep him, and no one will take him, the only other option would be to have him put to sleep - which is unthinkable.

I feel totally stuck between a rock and a hard place. DH and I have had this conversation so many times and never come up with an answer, because there isn't one! I think deep down I know it would be difficult, if not impossible, to manage such a situation safely. But I can't bear the idea of turfing out an elderly troubled dog and where on Earth would he go?!

So please be gentle. I'm pregnant, hormonal and ill, and I love my dog very much. So please be honest, but I can't handle a flaming right now.

OP posts:
ImmuneToWhatever · 26/02/2017 13:34

It's probably been mentioned but I don't have the battery power on my phone to RTFT but you can get 1:1 dog walkers.

They charge more, natch. But they exist.

early30smum · 26/02/2017 13:32

OP I feel for you, I really do, but in your position I would PTS.

The reasons being:

  1. however much work you do to prepare your dog, even the calmest dogs with no issues can be unpredictable and yours does have issues. You have literally NO way of knowing if the worst will happen.

  2. you say your dog can jump up as high as your arms- so if baby is in a sling, he/she is at exactly the right height to be pulled/torn from you if out on a walk. Will you physically be strong enough to get the dog off it that happens?

  3. you mention going for walks and not being able to use a pram with the dog- when my 2 were little doing for a walk with the pram was one of my greatest joys. It helped them sleep, I could look at them, it gave me a place underneath to stash shopping etc, gave me exercise and I wasn't hurting my back (I know not everyone feels this but I could never wear a sling without my back hurting). If you are out walking with the dog and have baby in a sling, and the worst happens (meet another dog and they fight or whatever) you are going to be in a very vulnerable position with a baby strapped to you.

  4. babies are hard work. You might have one that is a poor sleeper, and sleep deprivation makes you do silly things. It only takes one time of being exhausted and forgetting to shut the dog in a separate room for disaster to occur.

  5. the whole situation will be stressful. You'll constantly be worried about both the baby and the dog. Worried you've shut him out properly, worried he'll get through, worried baby will upset him etc etc. When baby does sleep during the day, I doubt you will be able to sleep yourself as you'll be on edge constantly thinking about the dog. This will only make you more tired and stressed.

  6. hopefully you will have a lovely straightforward birth. But if you don't, and you have stitches/c section etc you will be physically sore for a long time, dealing with a large, heavy dog is not going to be what you need.

  7. you probably will make friends with other mums with babies who you'll probably want to invite over for coffee etc. It'll be almost impossible with the dog.

  8. this is your first baby. You will want to enjoy every minute as much as you can, be free to wander round the house with him/her, not worry about not being able to go into certain rooms because of the dog etc, not worry if the dog needs attention at the same time as baby etc.

Sorry to be so negative and I appreciate it's a horrid situation, but I really think you should PTS. Flowers

sabzii · 26/02/2017 13:30

I would have him PTS.

He's a risk to others if he escapes. There's no place in society for aggressive dogs, fear aggressive or otherwise.

I think it's foolish to even consider keeping a dog of this temperament in the same house as a new baby.

DorcasthePuffin · 26/02/2017 13:28

Yes, Fingalswave and this was a dog who - though with some behavioural issues - had lived happily for many years in the most chaotic house I have ever entered. It just got too much for him in his old age.

Winteriscominginnit · 26/02/2017 13:26

I don't have a solution as such but to those saying they think people who value other animals over humans (we are animals too remember) are sociopaths... nope I'd say they just don't believe humans are superior to other animals. We got lucky evolutionwise but we're not special, nor are we worth more than any of the other species on earth, or in the universe... it's a very human mindset, this misplaced superiority complex and the cause of no end of conflict. That said, I hope you find a solution op, very difficult situation Flowers

TheLegendOfBeans · 26/02/2017 13:24

Sorry in advance for not having rtft but please please give this dog to a family or person that can give it the life it needs.

You absolutely cannot keep this dog; it's size is a threat in itself but coupled with a screwed up start, it's a risk that's just too big to take.

I don't think this is a decision you will take lightly but please be aware that the consequences of not acting before the baby arrives are too big to think about.

And it's not the animal's fault; sometimes it's just the way it is.

Fingalswave · 26/02/2017 13:20

Very good point Dorcas, elderly dogs don't necessarily calm down as they age, some get less tolerant and more irritable.

cowardlycustard2017 · 26/02/2017 13:19

Hi OP, I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if someone has already suggested this, but I follow a rescue on Facebook called Last Chance Rescue who take dogs with behavioural issues. They may be some distance from you but I have seen them take dogs from all over the UK.

The link to their FB here
www.facebook.com/lasthopeanimalrescueessex/
www.lastchanceanimalrescue.co.uk/kennel/dog.php

Headofthehive55 · 26/02/2017 13:19

If he was a live in boyfriend whom you thought might attack your child...wouldn't you throw him out?

GeorgeTheHamster · 26/02/2017 13:08

I don't think you're looking far enough ahead, op. If things go well for you then you may end up with a baby and a toddler. IME that's when you are really at your limit, and even if you can manage the dog with one baby (which seems unlikely TBH) it will fall apart at this stage I think.

BToperator · 26/02/2017 13:07

I think from what you have said, the chance of finding a home that could cope with him are minuscule. That leaves you with the options of keeping him, or PTS. I think I would go for the second option, but then I don't have the emotional attachment to him that you do. He has had a better, and longer life because you took him on, than he might otherwise have had. I feel for you, it must be such a tough decision to make.

DorcasthePuffin · 26/02/2017 13:06

This thread has just reminded me that I was bitten as a child, by my gran's German Shepherd (ex police dog) that was getting very elderly. I was a quiet child, timid of dogs, but I must have moved or touched him in the wrong way. My gran just kind of brushed it off, but a few days later he killed a kitten, crushed its skull.

There were a lot of kids and kittens around that house (my gran had 11 children, in a two up two down!) and I think the environment had got massively stressful for him. It really was a kindness to let him go at that stage. I can't think that a 'wait and see' strategy, of seeing how much stress the dog can cope with, would be any kinder.

Stormyseasallround · 26/02/2017 13:05

Apologies for the fact that it's from the Daiky Hate, but as a dog owner with small children, I found this article very sobering thinking:
www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2563469/Never-EVER-trust-dog-child-As-baby-mauled-death-vet-ALL-dogs-capable-killing.html

I adore my dog and she's a big soft lump who has never given us any cause to doubt her, but I still don't trust her entirely with the children. In your case, I'm not sure I could cope with the stress of always keeping them apart. In your position I would, with a very heavy heart, euthanise the dog. Good luck with whatever you do decide.

BurningBridges · 26/02/2017 13:02

Definitely take advice, personally I recommend the Blue Cross; you also need to be aware that if you have to go down the PTS route you will be going through some pretty tough emotions as well as having a new baby all at the same time. I don't envy you what an awful position to be in, but you have loved him and given him the best life for nearly 8 years - dogs have no "expectation" of time every day with you is heaven for them.

BertrandRussell · 26/02/2017 13:02

OP- I think you can safely ignore anyone who says that the value dogs over children.

DorcasthePuffin · 26/02/2017 13:01

I adore dogs, and value them over children. Well, cards on the table, I don't, and I don't think euthanizing a dog is necessarily cruel either.

But even if I did, it all seems so unremittingly stressful - for OP, AND for her dog. She has to look forward to being on constant guard, stressed and watchful, not being able to invite the mother and toddler group round for coffee, turning down playdates because she can't reciprocate.

And what does the dog have to look forward to? Being shut away, kept apart from the people he loves, and suffering all the disruption that babies bring to a house. He's getting on, he's had a good innings, and I can't see that it's cruel to give him a loving end now. It feels to me the absolute epitome of what a responsible dog owner does: to say, we've given him the best life we could, I don't want to ruin the end of it by increasing his stress and isolation.

Ubertasha2 · 26/02/2017 13:01

Essie, you are quite frankly an idiot. How dare you imply anyone is a sociopath. And btw , I am an excellent dog owner and believe me, none of them (or me) would ever want to venture near your kids!!!

nachogazpacho · 26/02/2017 13:01

I also think that you have given your dog 8 years of safety and training. 8 more years than many would have given him. And those 8 years you have managed to avoid any major incident. If you rang around the rescue centres and they warned you that with rehoming he might be rehomed further on down the line on gumtree to unkind people, then I think in the interests of the dog that has had 8 dedicated, healthy years you should then pts. Because at that point you have exhausted all the options and the dog will be remembered as a loved pet rather than a dog that attacked your family or someone else.

The pp that talked about toddlers is right - the toddler stage is very dangerous. It happens so quickly you really have no time to react (my dc was bitten as a toddler). Anxious dogs see toddlers as unpredictable little beings and behave very differently to them than an adult human.

I also think that with your hands full with baby you would be at much greater risk of having the dog escape. You'll forget to shut a baby gate or the back gate gets left open and the dog will be off like a shot, unmuzzled. A pp had experience of this situation. My own anxious dog has legged it out the front door whilst we've been distracted by dc and someone knocking. It's not a great situation to be in with a big anxious dog.

You really have given him the best 8 years he could have had.

honeyroar · 26/02/2017 13:01

Re homing a dog of this type and age is not really an option, unless you were lucky enough to find someone very rural to take him. Your options are either see whether you can cope with baby and dog safely, or pts. Personally I'd at least try and see how you cope. He's going to age from this point on anyway, so by the time baby is a toddler he will quite likely sleep a lot of the time. If you use stair gates to separate him so that he can sit nearby and observe, gauge his reactions, get an idea of how you think it's going - is he calm or agitated.. If it doesn't look like it's working out then PTS quietly after a day of treats and fuss knowing that you at least tried. Personally I couldn't write him off just yet and pts on what ifs. But it's your dog, you know him, and it's not a cruel thing to do to a dog at the end of the day.

I'd try contacting a German Shepard rescue and asking their advice. The one I follow gets a fair few reactive types and successfully rehome. They, as a rescue, may be more help.

Fingalswave · 26/02/2017 13:00

Ubertasha

The op made it clear in opening post that when she got the dog 8 yrs ago, she wasn't remotely interested in having babies and she had hoped in that time that it would turn out to be more trainable than it has been in reality. Life circumstances change, and in reality, unlike in the dog behaviourial programmes on the TV, where problems are magically cured within three months or so, many loving owners end up compromising when it becomes clear that, owing to its early life circumstances, a rescue dog is never going to be "cured" entirely of its difficult behaviours, so they end up living in a way that accommodates or limits them to a degree, which is what the op has done.

It's abundantly clear that the op has given this dog 8yrs of it's life it probably would not have had, had she not have been prepared to take him on in the first place.

Libitina · 26/02/2017 12:56

Ubertasha, I think the majority of those advocating euthanasia are animal lovers if you actually took the time to read their posts.

KnockMeDown · 26/02/2017 12:55

Someone upthread said it would not be reasonable to PTS, or "kill" the dog in case he did XYZ. But surely that is better than doing it after he does something?

As previous posters have said, you have already given this dog a good life. Let him go now, and give yourself time to grieve and recover before baby comes. Then you will be able to enjoy your new baby without worry.

And you don't need any one's permission, least of all on MN, to do this.

EssieTregowan · 26/02/2017 12:55

If you really value dogs over children, Ubertasha, then you are quite possibly a sociopath and I wouldn't want you around my kids, let alone your dogs.

SabineUndine · 26/02/2017 12:55

I would say, this is a big dog and his normal lifespan would be about ten years, yes? In that case he's had 8years with you that he's been lucky to have, so I would have him pts. I know you don't want to do this, but you absolutely cannot take any risks with your baby.

Huskylover1 · 26/02/2017 12:53

I think you should try to re-home him firstly. You are assuming that no-one will want him, but this may simply not be the case. I am amazed at the dogs that some people take on. Some are drawn to difficult cases. You might be really lucky and find someone local, who will allow you to visit him from time to time. Have you looked on the web for a specific rescue charity for his breed? I think you said he was a mix (half and half). Even so, for eg Rottweiler rescue would take a dog that was half Rottweiler....they will have a list of people wanting his specific breed. It may be the other end of the country, but I've seen a very big dog re-homed this way.