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Rock and a hard place - My dog and new baby

707 replies

Lemondrop09 · 26/02/2017 10:29

Perhaps AIBU is the wrong place to post this, as people can be very scathing. Please be honest but gentle with me!

Sorry this is so long.....

I rescued my dog over 7 years ago, when he was 8 months old. He'll be 8 years old in a few months time. He is a large cross breed (two guard breeds) and weighs over 40kg. He was poorly bred and poorly socialised and has been mentally screwed up by his bad start. He had multiple homes in his short life before coming to us. He did not go through a proper rescue centre and if he had a proper behavioural assessment, I strongly suspect he would have been put down. He would not have been rehomable - not because he's excessively aggressive, but few rescues will home dogs with even the slightest aggression.

His aggression is fear based. He's scared of strangers and other dogs. If properly introduced to a person or another dog, he's fine. In fact, he's a total baby and as soon as you have his trust, he'll love you forever. We spent so much time and money over the years on behaviourists, trainers and socialisation classes. He improved a lot, but he will always be difficult. We always walk him on lead and usually muzzled (as a precaution, he's never actually bitten anyone, the muzzle in more in case of other dogs) and actively avoid other dogs on walks. Walking him is stressful, but we mostly get out and back without incident. We do not bother introducing him to any people he does not need to know, instead we usually shut him away when we have visitors. However if we have overnight guests, he can be successfully introduced with a bit of time and lots of sausage!

Ok, so here's the main issue. When I got him seven years ago, I was not remotely thinking about children and had also expected an 8 month old puppy to turn into a normal dog with enough effort. I underestimated how much genetics would play and that he would never be normal. I thought I could turn him around completely. I couldn't,

I am now pregnant with our first child, although it's early days. It's been a very hard time as I've had hypermesis gravardium and have been (and still am) very unwell. I haven't got out of bed in weeks, and DH is working full time, running the household and sorting out dog. We normally split the dog walking (as Neither of us enjoy doing it due to stress) but he's done it every single day without complaining, even though I know it makes him miserable. I feel awful about it.

Both my SILs and MIL have never had any time for our dog. They aren't animal people and can't forgive him for his issues. As such, we have never introduced him to them. I find them quick to judge him and they all clearly think we should simply get rid of him. Now I'm pregnant, they've already started asking us about what we're going to do. It's so upsetting that I've asked DH to tell them to lay off.

Thing is, DH and I have known for a while that we would need to make a decision eventually, and we've had circular discussions but there's no easy answer.

We've tried for this baby for over a year and it's very much wanted. It's going to be hard enough have a newborn, without the stress about whether or not our own pet will harm it. Also (a more minor issue), our dog can be demanding and pushy. When he wants a walk or food, he will pace and whine, and drive you crackers. This behaviour when I'm sleep deprived with a screaming newborn is likely to push me over the edge.

DH is likely to have to pick up the dog walking for the majority of the time, as I cannot safely walk my dog and a buggy as I need two hands if an off lead dog approaches us (I might be able to cope with a sling, but still doesn't feel safe to carry a newborn and potentially deal with a dog spat). Getting a dog walker is not really an option, as our dog needs 1:1 care from someone who can handle him. I got this dog before DH came along, he's had a very difficult dog thrust on him which he wouldn't have chosen. DH does so well with our dog, but I know he does it for me.

I've tried to consider whether it would be realistic to keep the dog separate from baby during the day? Then let the dog out with us in the evenings? Once the baby has settled and is bigger there's a chance they could be introduced carefully.

Or can they? As I said, my dog is only scared of the unknown and very good when he trusts. The home he came to before is had 3 children under 10 and he was fine with them, but that was years ago. He has never shown aggression to a child, but then again we've never let him very near to them. He's a darling with us, and I do think he has the potential to be fine with our child who will be familiar and constant to him.

But how the hell do we ever find that out? Can I really actually try introducing dog and baby, or is it too risky? I feel like it might be irresponsible to even try.

He's a big strong dog. He occasionally jumps on us if he gets excited. He's heavy and his claws are sharp. He has hurt us both without meaning to. He could easily knock a toddler over, even if being friendly.

Thing is, I love my dog. Nightmare he is, but he's my nightmare and I'm responsible for him. I never wanted to be that person to turf out their pet because a baby turned up. My worries are genuinely to do with safety and whether this situation is manageable.

Thing is, even if we decide we can't do it, he would be impossible to rehome. There are thousands of perfectly nice dogs who can't find homes. My dog will be 8 years old, with aggression issues and also expensive seasonal allergies. Literally, no one would want him. I've had professionals say to be "he's lucky he has you, because I wouldn't put up with him!". I don't want to rehome him, but even if I decide to, I really think we would struggle to find him a home. He'd hate being stuck in kennels long term as he'd be so stressed, and I fear a rescue centre would simply put him down.

If we can't keep him, and no one will take him, the only other option would be to have him put to sleep - which is unthinkable.

I feel totally stuck between a rock and a hard place. DH and I have had this conversation so many times and never come up with an answer, because there isn't one! I think deep down I know it would be difficult, if not impossible, to manage such a situation safely. But I can't bear the idea of turfing out an elderly troubled dog and where on Earth would he go?!

So please be gentle. I'm pregnant, hormonal and ill, and I love my dog very much. So please be honest, but I can't handle a flaming right now.

OP posts:
StarUtopia · 26/02/2017 16:18

And this is why I raise my eyebrows everytime a 20 something couple get a dog together just after they've moved in! Trial baby. Baby which then gets ousted once real baby has arrived. However, at least you genuinely seem to acknowledge that you didn't think this far ahead. 3 good friends who have all had babies this year (all of whom used to dote on their dogs) now don't give the dog even a passing mention.

Your baby will come first. Of course. It's your first baby. Hard enough without all of this stress to worry about too.

Rehome and you will be worrying about where he is, who he is with, can they cope with him, are they being kind to him etc etc etc. I think you need to pts too :( which is awful given really I'm sure he could have a lot more years left in him. But I don't see you have much choice.

If you're 20 something and reading this thread, please fgs, have a baby first and THEN get the dog to complete the family!!

Fruitbat1980 · 26/02/2017 16:15

Very similar situation friends of ours had. Rescue dog, their world till baby came along, never any major issues but he didn't mix well with other dogs/ people. they did all the slow introduction, lots of fuss and attention to dog, get him used to carry cot & smells before baby comes etc etc advise from behavioural experts. Once baby came it was a nightmare. His grumpiness became aggressiveness directed mostly at my friend. He first went for her when baby was 3 months (she moved a cushion) we were horrified, deep gash in her arm. They forgave, he did it again 6 months later (picked something up of floor) lashed out and bit . Thank god it was at her not baby else different story. They took him to be euthanised. They couldn't risk next time it would be baby. Sorry as I'm sure it's not what you want to hear. But you are not alone. They were beside themselves but ultimately Baby comes first.

RooMama · 26/02/2017 16:11

Lemon, we are in a similar situation right now, only baby is born and dog is possibly slightly less difficult that yours. We rescued ours from dogs trust 4 years ago. Baby is now 11 months. We were very concerned about how he would cope with baby when we found out we were pregnant, sought help, but then had an incredibly difficult pregnancy (twins, one stillborn) and really wasn't able to focus on getting him ready before birth.

When we brought DD home, it was actually fine for a while. Babies when they are little are always with you, so in the first few months it really wasn't a big deal at all. From 6 months onwards she started stressing him out more. Initially it was due to crying - she was a difficult baby to sleep train and as a result there was quite a bit of crying in the nighttime. We tried to limit it as much as possible, but she was very stubborn and it made for a stressful time for him. Now that she's on the move it is even more stressful both for him and us, but we have coped through careful construction of gates, playpens, etc to keep them separate. They do socialise with eachother, eg she will sit on my lap and he'll snout at her toes or lick her fingers sometimes after she's eaten something. She loves him, and I think he's quite ok with her except when there's lots of crying or she's heading straight towards him. He's certainly showed a lot more interest in her since she started solids! Thankfully he does a good job of getting out of the way if something stressful is happening so he does reasonably well to manage his own neurotic behaviour. We are seeing a behaviourist who believes pain may be a cause for his aggression, he's on meds that knocks him out a bit, which does help.

I was finding it quite difficult being on maternity leave towards the end when I spent my days trying to keep them both separated at all times, but then about a month ago I returned to work 4 days a week, and I'm much less stressed about it now that we are only in the home during the day with him 3 days a week, of which two of those DH is home as well. So, 4 days a week he has the house to himself during the day like it was before baby (dog walker comes to give him a break and take him out for a leaded solo walk while we are at work).

So yeah it seems to be working ok for us at the moment, we are taking things week by week and I have no doubt it will get harder before it gets easier as she becomes more capable. We already have a dialogue opened with dogs trust and they are providing support to us as we need it to try to keep him in our home if it is possible to do so (they are actually really helpful and have been a good resource for us).

The main thing that frustrates me about the dog is as DD grows older, inviting her pals over to play and stuff is going to be really quite difficult. While I hope/believe that we can get to a point where DD and dog can safely live together having other people's children in the home is really not going to be possible, but that's a few years off we'll deal with that if it becomes a problem. Our dog is about 6, realistically only half way through his life.

But as previous posters have said, we have as much a commitment to him as we do her. We love him dearly and the fact that the first few years of his life were not at all great, makes my commitment even stronger to try to keep him unless there really is no other option. I don't really have any advice, but the only thing I will say is that I think we would have given him up by now if it weren't for my return to work. There is a limit to the amount of stress you can take on yourself and it is tough. But equally, you love him so as long as he isn't a danger to your child, you will make it work. If he is a danger to your or your child, then the decision will be easy.

Lemondrop09 · 26/02/2017 16:03

If he stays, I will put him away for all visiting mums, babies, health visitors etc. The dog puts himself in the living room when the door bell rings as he's used to being put away. I wouldn't introduce him to anyone unnecessarily. We have old fashioned door locks with keys, so could ensure it's not accidentally opened

OP posts:
livelyredjellybean · 26/02/2017 16:01

My parents came to visit me with my newborn for a week. They brought their reactive dog with them.
I have been a professional trainer and behaviourist for 11 years and have 8 dogs of my own. As exhausting as it already is with a newborn, it is TEN times worse keeping an eye on a dog you can't trust..

Lemondrop09 · 26/02/2017 15:59

I haven't introduced my SIL or MIL to him because they are so unwaveringly judgmental about him. They are not animal people. They don't like the idea of him, don't understand him and have no desire to meet him. They rarely come to the house, we go to them instead. Why would I put them together?

Ive introduced him to a number of friends, who like dogs and are willing to follow instructions, and it's been fine. Surpringly one very loud man who I swore I'd never introduce my dog to as he's noisy and unpredictable - however I ended up having to when I landed on our doorstep unexpectedly and stayed for a week! They are best buds. We've had a BBQ at the house with about 5 guests, and he was fine with being introduced carefully, He also has a very good memory too, adoring my friends from York who only see him 1-2 times a year. He can be introduced, but I don't do it unnecessarily.

I spoke to the trainer who knows my dog. She thinks it is possible the situation can be managed and is putting me in touch with another owner who went through this and is now introducing their second baby to their fear aggressive dog. It took care, lots of baby gates and time, but it worked. I feel this option is at least worth exploring, so I will talk to the other owners and see how they coped.

OP posts:
Nancy91 · 26/02/2017 15:55

I can see that your dog means a lot to you so I'm sorry you are in this position Flowers

You don't know how the dog will react yet. I don't think you should preemptively euthanise him. A fear aggressive dog isn't a write off, but the situation will need to be carefully managed.

If you need to rehome him please don't offer him as free to a good home. Research local rescues. I have adopted older rescue dogs with behavioural problems, there are others out there who might take him on. I know you will feel guilty giving him to a rescue centre, but dogs are very adaptable and he will be looked after there and have the chance of finding a good retirement home.

Best of luck figuring out what is best for you, your baby and the dog Smile

AnoiseAnnoysanOyster · 26/02/2017 15:54

What will you do with your visitors wanting to come round and see the baby? Also it's common to meet up with other mums and babies if you do NCT/antenatal classes. Birthday parties never going to have those at home? Child's friends round? It goes way beyond just having a newborn.

sycamore54321 · 26/02/2017 15:35

I think you know what you need to do OP. I was particularly struck by the fact that you haven't managed to introduce the dog to your MIL and SILs in all the years you have been with your partner. If you can't manage him for occasional visits from adult women, then I really can't see how he could cope with the constant presence of a new growing baby.

I am shocked at some of the posts on this thread. I assumed that @JoeyJoe's post was sarcasm - surely it can't be sincere? I also agree that human life and safety, especially babies, must always be prioritised over animals.

OP some posters have given stories of their dog surprising them by "adoring" the new baby. While this is better than the alternative, in your case, I don't think it is a hugely desired outcome either. That would make your baby someone the dog needs to protect from other people and animals and could even increase his agreesion.

It is a tough choice for you but I think you know what the right choice is.

MarvelMummy13 · 26/02/2017 15:34

I think you answered your own question with he doesn't warn or growl he just lunges and could easily reach into my arms if I was holding my baby. I think you know this doggy isn't safe enough to be around babies.

The risks are ridiculously high and I don't think anyone will let you 'test' their child like someone suggested earlier. I have a child and I wouldn't risk it. I'm so sorry you're going through this I can't imagine how you're feeling but even if the dog is okay for now what happens when he/she is older and your baby is a toddler .

I'll give you an example I have a very close family member with a dog who's the softest dog ever, treated like a baby, can be picked up, good on walks and with people and other animals. But I still don't trust her alone with a baby she hasn't been brought up around babies and you just don't know,. A few years ago she snapped very nastily at my daughter , She was walking past and my toddler pulled her tail (obviously daughter was told off for this but she was a toddler and didn't know). I think if she had continued the dog would've bitten her you could tell she scared me. Babies take up a lot of time too and theres no guarantee you'll be able to bring the dog in on a night i remember up to about 4 months baby was with me all the time . When I was downstairs she was in her moses basket next to us until we went to bed and she came up with us so there was actually no baby free zone around me for a while

Btw congratulations on your pregnancy and best of luck

AnnieAnoniMouse · 26/02/2017 15:32

💐 I'm sorry you've had to endure some nasty posts.

I wouldn't rehome him unless it was with someone I already knew & where I would know what was happening to him. The first person that took him might not cope & he might get passed on & again & again, ending up god knows where. I'd rather PTS than take any chance he could be abused.

As your dog is lovely with you & others he knows, I think I'd give it a chance to work out. I'd buy the dog gates - same as the baby gates, but taller. You wouldn't need to have him in a separate room at all times, especially not when you and DH are both home. There are lots of things you could do to feel more assured such as a soft muzzle &/or having him on a lead. He's getting older, by the time your baby is a toddler he might not be here through natural causes or he might be fine with the baby. PTS isn't a 'now or never' option. I definitely wouldn't ether rehome or PTS until the baby is actually here.

I hope the H goes away soon.

BertrandRussell · 26/02/2017 15:23

I hate i when people who claim to be animal lovers would rather an animal was alive and miserable than pts. That's not loving animals, it's ridiculous furbaby sentimentality.

fenneltea · 26/02/2017 15:23

The op may well want to keep the dog, but you've got to put the dogs needs before the owners wants, and to be continually stressed and unable to be exercised properly won't be in the dog's best interests.

I had my horse pts last year for health issues, I had a nightmare last night where I'd sold her and she was miserable in a home that ill treated her, I desperately wanted to help her and couldn't. I woke up and remembered she was dead and it was actually a relief.

There are fates worse than death for many animals, we are sadly over populated with unwanted horses, cats and dogs and there is no shame in seeing euthanasia as a viable option. Life at all costs isn't always in the animals best interests, and it is often those most involved in animal welfare who can also see that euthanasia is sometimes the kindest thing.

Fingalswave · 26/02/2017 15:14

Joey Yes that goes without saying as the op has already made huge efforts on the dog's behalf. But sometimes making every effort is not enough. Constant supervision doesn't work. The dog may be miserable with less attention and having to be separated from the rest of the family. This is a powerful animal we are talking about, who has been described as "pushy" and "needy" who paces and whines when he wants attention, so his situation is unlikely to improve with the arrival of a baby.

Skooba · 26/02/2017 15:13

I don't think a behaviourist can save the day - there will always be that risk, which is not worth taking.

Try for rehoming by a proper dog shelter - so they will check out new home etc. There are some very kindhearted people out there. Someone might have a remote in the country with no kids or neighbours home for your dog.
If that fails I think you have to ahve him put down.

JoeyJoeJoeJuniorShabadu · 26/02/2017 15:03

But she wants to keep the dog. therefore i don't doubt they will make every effort to make sure the baby is safe.

Fingalswave · 26/02/2017 15:01

Joey "I'm sure your baby will be fine"

How can you possibly know this when the op who has lived with the dog and trained him for eight years cannot be sure herself?

That is the entire point of this thread. As op pointed out, it is far from clear cut. He might be fine, but given his history and current behaviour, it is only sensible to have serious concerns and discuss it at length and seek the advice of professionals. To just assume all will be fine is highly irresponsible.

And as the op has pointed out, they have already gone to great lengths with courses and behaviorists etc to alter dog's behaviour, it is more a case of management now than improvement.

Lemondrop09 · 26/02/2017 15:01

Thanks Hiding but I'm in London

OP posts:
fenneltea · 26/02/2017 14:59

I've owned dogs for many years and love them, but in your situation I'd be euthanising.

Being mentally unstable IS a health issue he stands little chance of finding a suitable home and as an older dog rehoming or kenn eling will prove stressful for him.
Id make an appointment for the vet to come to your home and spoil him rotten with his favourite treats and let him have the dignity of being spared the trauma of a possible miserable future life. [Flowers]

PageStillNotFound404 · 26/02/2017 14:57

Hidingtonothing do their initials happen to begin with EJ? If so, they're one of the best in the business - they recommended our behaviourist when we first took on PageDog, and gave us some fabulous tips via email while we waited for the more local person's availability.

ElspethFlashman · 26/02/2017 14:56

Please bear in mind that 'supervising' young children and dogs does not work and is not enough. I have been in situations in which I have 'supervised' just fine, and still a snap happened.

Totally agree with this. Dogs react far faster than we do.

JoeyJoeJoeJuniorShabadu · 26/02/2017 14:55

No chance! He's 8 already. Op hasn't said which 2 breeds he is a mix of, but she has said 2 guard breeds. A Rottweiler's life expectancy is 8-10 years. A Doberman is 10-13 years. In this context, he is already "elderly".

Ok - well, if it 5 years, that's not long at all. They can enjoy the time they have left with him.

farkoff · 26/02/2017 14:55

I honestly can't get my head around why anyone would even consider having an animal that behaves one this way anywhere near a baby.

BeaveredBadgered · 26/02/2017 14:49

Very sorry you've got such a tough decision to make OP Flowers
Being ill whilst pregnant is stressful enough, especially with something as horrendous as HG.

I don't think you were unreasonable at all to have taken your dog on 8 years ago not knowing when and if you might have kids and how long your dog would be with you. Planning ahead is one thing but life is so unpredictable it's not always feasible. I'm surprised you've been given a telling off by PP. some people just aren't that nice I guess.

I would probably agree that the fairest thing for your dog is to PTS. I had my first baby last year and even though she's been an easy baby in lots of ways it's still been challenging and stressful at times. I think it would be difficult to keep them separate and unfair to your dog to suddenly have to adapt to a brand set up at home. It's common to be on high alert for risk and danger after having a baby and it might not be the best for your mental state to have to constantly be on top of where the dog is and if the situation is safe.

MontePulciana · 26/02/2017 14:49

We have a Staffordshire bt cross. She handles our 2 year old monster with ease. I find bigger dogs do handle kids much better in general.

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