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Rock and a hard place - My dog and new baby

707 replies

Lemondrop09 · 26/02/2017 10:29

Perhaps AIBU is the wrong place to post this, as people can be very scathing. Please be honest but gentle with me!

Sorry this is so long.....

I rescued my dog over 7 years ago, when he was 8 months old. He'll be 8 years old in a few months time. He is a large cross breed (two guard breeds) and weighs over 40kg. He was poorly bred and poorly socialised and has been mentally screwed up by his bad start. He had multiple homes in his short life before coming to us. He did not go through a proper rescue centre and if he had a proper behavioural assessment, I strongly suspect he would have been put down. He would not have been rehomable - not because he's excessively aggressive, but few rescues will home dogs with even the slightest aggression.

His aggression is fear based. He's scared of strangers and other dogs. If properly introduced to a person or another dog, he's fine. In fact, he's a total baby and as soon as you have his trust, he'll love you forever. We spent so much time and money over the years on behaviourists, trainers and socialisation classes. He improved a lot, but he will always be difficult. We always walk him on lead and usually muzzled (as a precaution, he's never actually bitten anyone, the muzzle in more in case of other dogs) and actively avoid other dogs on walks. Walking him is stressful, but we mostly get out and back without incident. We do not bother introducing him to any people he does not need to know, instead we usually shut him away when we have visitors. However if we have overnight guests, he can be successfully introduced with a bit of time and lots of sausage!

Ok, so here's the main issue. When I got him seven years ago, I was not remotely thinking about children and had also expected an 8 month old puppy to turn into a normal dog with enough effort. I underestimated how much genetics would play and that he would never be normal. I thought I could turn him around completely. I couldn't,

I am now pregnant with our first child, although it's early days. It's been a very hard time as I've had hypermesis gravardium and have been (and still am) very unwell. I haven't got out of bed in weeks, and DH is working full time, running the household and sorting out dog. We normally split the dog walking (as Neither of us enjoy doing it due to stress) but he's done it every single day without complaining, even though I know it makes him miserable. I feel awful about it.

Both my SILs and MIL have never had any time for our dog. They aren't animal people and can't forgive him for his issues. As such, we have never introduced him to them. I find them quick to judge him and they all clearly think we should simply get rid of him. Now I'm pregnant, they've already started asking us about what we're going to do. It's so upsetting that I've asked DH to tell them to lay off.

Thing is, DH and I have known for a while that we would need to make a decision eventually, and we've had circular discussions but there's no easy answer.

We've tried for this baby for over a year and it's very much wanted. It's going to be hard enough have a newborn, without the stress about whether or not our own pet will harm it. Also (a more minor issue), our dog can be demanding and pushy. When he wants a walk or food, he will pace and whine, and drive you crackers. This behaviour when I'm sleep deprived with a screaming newborn is likely to push me over the edge.

DH is likely to have to pick up the dog walking for the majority of the time, as I cannot safely walk my dog and a buggy as I need two hands if an off lead dog approaches us (I might be able to cope with a sling, but still doesn't feel safe to carry a newborn and potentially deal with a dog spat). Getting a dog walker is not really an option, as our dog needs 1:1 care from someone who can handle him. I got this dog before DH came along, he's had a very difficult dog thrust on him which he wouldn't have chosen. DH does so well with our dog, but I know he does it for me.

I've tried to consider whether it would be realistic to keep the dog separate from baby during the day? Then let the dog out with us in the evenings? Once the baby has settled and is bigger there's a chance they could be introduced carefully.

Or can they? As I said, my dog is only scared of the unknown and very good when he trusts. The home he came to before is had 3 children under 10 and he was fine with them, but that was years ago. He has never shown aggression to a child, but then again we've never let him very near to them. He's a darling with us, and I do think he has the potential to be fine with our child who will be familiar and constant to him.

But how the hell do we ever find that out? Can I really actually try introducing dog and baby, or is it too risky? I feel like it might be irresponsible to even try.

He's a big strong dog. He occasionally jumps on us if he gets excited. He's heavy and his claws are sharp. He has hurt us both without meaning to. He could easily knock a toddler over, even if being friendly.

Thing is, I love my dog. Nightmare he is, but he's my nightmare and I'm responsible for him. I never wanted to be that person to turf out their pet because a baby turned up. My worries are genuinely to do with safety and whether this situation is manageable.

Thing is, even if we decide we can't do it, he would be impossible to rehome. There are thousands of perfectly nice dogs who can't find homes. My dog will be 8 years old, with aggression issues and also expensive seasonal allergies. Literally, no one would want him. I've had professionals say to be "he's lucky he has you, because I wouldn't put up with him!". I don't want to rehome him, but even if I decide to, I really think we would struggle to find him a home. He'd hate being stuck in kennels long term as he'd be so stressed, and I fear a rescue centre would simply put him down.

If we can't keep him, and no one will take him, the only other option would be to have him put to sleep - which is unthinkable.

I feel totally stuck between a rock and a hard place. DH and I have had this conversation so many times and never come up with an answer, because there isn't one! I think deep down I know it would be difficult, if not impossible, to manage such a situation safely. But I can't bear the idea of turfing out an elderly troubled dog and where on Earth would he go?!

So please be gentle. I'm pregnant, hormonal and ill, and I love my dog very much. So please be honest, but I can't handle a flaming right now.

OP posts:
MacBaker · 27/02/2017 18:24

I am so so sorry you are having to make this decision. I know how absolutely heartbreaking it is as we were there too. I had my daughter 3 months ago and made the decision that my dog just wasn't going to be able to be apart of our lives, he too had fear aggression. It wasn't fair on him and we wanted him to have the life he deserves. I couldn't bare the thought of him hurting her and then us having to have him put down. We had always had issues but we had learned how to manage them, he was a gorgeous dog he just didn't understand our new baby and most definitely didn't want to share us. We managed to find him a perfect home with people I know will look after him. We regularly get updates and he is outside all day with his new owner where he belongs, so no matter how hard it still is, I know I did the right thing. We were lucky, my PIL offered to have him for the 2 months it took to find him a perfect home. My first thoughts were, no one will have a dog that from first meet appears aggressive, but they adore him. It still isn't easy, our house has never been so full yet so empty with him gone, but both my daughter and him are safe and happy and that's what matters. I hope you manage to sort it. X

Playdoughinthecarpet · 27/02/2017 18:22

Hi Lemon, we had our dog who was a bit old and grumpy, 9 when Dd was born. She did occasionally snap but we weren't concerned. When Dd was 18 months old she cornered the dog in the kitchen, nobody's fault, lots of people, furniture etc. I think Dd trod on her tail and the dog bit DD's face. We had to put the dog down. It was heartbreaking. The nip was possibly a warning but an inch from DD's eye. They were a similar height. We couldn't risk DD's wellbeing. Am sorry you are in this situation 💐

Amber70 · 27/02/2017 18:21

No dog is safe or to be trusted with a baby or young child. My heart goes out to you OP, but what a lucky dog. We have the same situation, I have a rescue Giant Schnauzer, 9 years old, fear aggressive. And went through this dilemma. But we still have her and our DD is 19 months old now. I've walker her with the baby in a sling with no problem though I do have to have her on a lead around other people and animals. And I'm not big. We never ever leave her around DD, or any small child. We don't have a big house, but we ensure she has a separate area where she is happy and in the good weather she has a kennel outside where is also happy for a time. We have managed and everyone is happy. That said, you must do what is right for your family. I'm so pleased you wouldn't advertise him for free, too many nasty people out there. Or perhaps speak to your vet, who may know someone who maybe suitable and willing to rehome. If you do decide to PTS, know he's had an amazing life he possibly wouldn't have had otherwise and that you've done it because it's the best decision for him. Good luck.

Previously1488218868 · 27/02/2017 18:16

Euthanasia is not the only option. I know someone who runs a sanctuary which is full of happy pets that were unhomeable for various reasons, including those that were considered dangerous because they were nervous and afraid.

BTW, I have just managed to get back into MN after problems changing my e.mail address, I am not a new poster, but had to get a new name as Yahoo does not work on this site, for me at any rate.

Vermillioncomfyshoes · 27/02/2017 18:16

Honestly? I would probably euthanize the dog at this point. He's 8, big and strong, unsocialized, not trustworthy, not trainable by the sounds of it, and you're going to have a baby in the house

This. It's an awful decision to have to make. If you have him PTS, you might regret it from time to time and think, well, it might have been OK if we'd worked at it.

If you don't have him PTS, and something unthinkable happens, you will regret it every day of your life forever. You really cannot take the risk.
I cannot understand the 'give it a try' brigade. I'm pretty good at persevering under difficult circumstances - but here the risk is just too great.

Sally176 · 27/02/2017 18:15

I'm so sorry for your situation, I really feel for you.
Congrats on the amazing baby news. You obviously are concerned about the safety of your family and it sounds as though his behaviour worries you enough to be asking for help.
I'm a little bit shocked at the 'put him to sleep' comments. A vet will never knowingly put down a healthy animal just because they have become an inconvenience. An animal sanctuary will take him in but please do ask your vet for advice or a referral to an animal behaviourist to have him properly assessed and potentially worked with before you make any decision about his future. He loves you and you love him, it sounds as though he had a terrible start to life before he was lucky enough to find you. I do feel as though you made the decision to take him in and it's not his fault that things have changed. Give him a chance xx

trelawney59 · 27/02/2017 18:13

I have a rescue terrier. When I became pregnant friends automatically put the fear of God in me by saying you'll never be able to keep him with the baby.
Well ......
Another friend gave me a child's doll that cried. I spent the majority of my pregnancy carrying/playing with said doll around my dog. 3 months before due date the crib, bounced and Stokke baby seat were put up so the 'baby' was put in that when I was at home.
After giving birth one of the first babygrows worn was taken to my dog at his kennels. He slept with that grow until he was picked up. My newborn daughter was in the car when he was picked up. After bringing my daughter into the house he came in on a lead for a sniff hello.
He was never left alone with her. She has grown up to know not to go into his bed etc and 3 years on all is well.
My dog was a stray with no known history. I also took advice from our vet about everything. He can't be let off the lead either - no recall and a penchant for small furry animals!
It's been hard work and people probably thought I was mad but I didn't want to give up on my dog. Every situation is unique but just wanted you to know that it's not always necessary to have a one way trip to the vets.

Astoria7974 · 27/02/2017 18:11

How is this even a dilemma? Baby over a pet everytime. If you can rehome great - otherwise euthanasia is the only option.

Jaxhog · 27/02/2017 18:10

Lemondrop09, I think your dog and family are very lucky to have such a considerate, responsible and lovely person in their lives. I can't imagine anyone else taking such care to do the right thing for everyone concerned. It is going to be difficult - whatever you decide. But I get the impression that you will ultimately make the best decision possible.

I don't have advice, but I do wish you luck.

ijustdonotknow · 27/02/2017 18:10

Personally I think you'll have to say goodbye to the dog. You've given him a lovely, happy life. Life shut away half the time would not be nice for him and the probably small risk of him hurting the baby is still too much of a risk. He'd probably feel jealous of the baby getting the attention.
You'll always remember him but better to start life as a mother able to focus 100% on that.
It's probably better to have the talk sooner than later - especially if your husband is doing all the dog walking and dog minding. He might feel he's been wasting his time as it were.
I hope you're feeling better soon.

reiki73 · 27/02/2017 18:09

I feel so sad for you and your situation, and have nothing but compassion for you. You're pregnant, ill, and having to consider a difficult decision about a pet who you love dearly. I've never had dogs myself, and am not familiar with their behaviour patterns, so couldn't help with anything there. The only thing that I could say, which I,don't think has yet been said, is have you thought about asking your vet for advice? That's the only thing that I can think of that might be helpful. Look after yourself xx

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 27/02/2017 18:07

How heartbreaking for you and your dp Sad

I agree I wouldn't take the risk and he is likely to be very unhappy and confused a young baby being around and taking up all your attention.

Your last day will be terribly sad but having an animal pts is so peaceful. A day out, lots of fuss and then a vet come to your home what better way to let him go he has had a wonderful life and lots of love

DagenhamRoundhouse · 27/02/2017 18:06

Can you get advice from Dogs Trust? Sorry if this has already been mentioned but I can't read thru 16 pages of comments!

Link to list of their centres to find your local one:
www.dogstrust.org.uk/our-centres/

pollymere · 27/02/2017 18:06

The real question is how you would feel if your dog attacked your baby. This is a distinct possibility so you need to consider this when you're making a decision.

PageStillNotFound404 · 27/02/2017 18:00

OP I'm sure you won't as you sound v sensible and clued up but if you are hoping to make it work, please do not let Cesar Milan or any of his disciples within 20 metres of a fear aggressive (or any, really) dog. His schtick is outdated and discredited dominance / pack theory bullshit and it's very very dangerous to try that on a fear-aggressive, reactive dog - he really would be a death sentence for your boy!

DaisyFlower161 · 27/02/2017 18:00

Difficult situation especially when you are pregnant to deal with. I suggest an emergency appeal to the 'It's me or the Dog" trainer Victoria Stillwell as she seems to do marvels with extremely difficult dogs (obviously what appears on TV may not always be the full story but she does seem good at what she does).
Good luck with it.

PageStillNotFound404 · 27/02/2017 17:57

lolalola did you also miss the bit where the OP says this dog doesn't give warnings? Or that he is too big and too prone to lunging at other dogs - and with the best will in the world, OP can try to control his environment as much as possible, but I know from experience it's impossible to control numpty owners of dogs who just "want to play" - for her to safely walk him onehanded and push a pram with the other hand, so it's not just about keeping them separate in the house?

mizzundastood · 27/02/2017 17:57

Sorry if anyone has already said this but have you heard of Cesar Millan? Google him. Or this amazing lady: m.plymouthherald.co.uk/dangerous-dog-caged-and-left-on-death-row-for-two-years-wins-reprieve-and-gets-a-new-owner/story-29433126-detail/story.html She has custody of a 'dangerous' dog seized by police. The court awarded it to her instead of destroying it. Seems yours is not suitable for a home environment but that doesn't have to be the end for him. FWIW I would not risk the baby around him at all. Flowers

KnittyFoxyMa · 27/02/2017 17:56

Also, if you are anywhere near Essex, speak to the DogsTrust there. I am close friends with the person in charge and she has much experience of dogs such as this.

dowhatnow · 27/02/2017 17:56

Oh op, you sound such a caring responsible owner. You've weighed up the situation so carefully, but I think you already know the answer. He may well be fine but you just can't take the risk. You would never live with yourself if anything happened to your child. It also wouldn't be fair to him to limit his life by shutting him away for such long periods and too open to a slip up - forgetting just that once to close that stair gate. Toddler putting arms through etc. It's just not an option.

You have no choice but to rehome him or have him PTS.

Don't feel guilty. He's had 8 years of a loving home that he wouldn't have had if you hadn't come along. You can't and shouldn't put your life on hold for him. Of course you will be sad but better for you all if you part ways now. Being PTS may seem unthinkable but it might be the better option if he will struggle to adapt to a new home. Sometimes you need to be cruel to be kind.

EweAreHere · 27/02/2017 17:54

Honestly? I would probably euthanize the dog at this point. He's 8, big and strong, unsocialized, not trustworthy, not trainable by the sounds of it, and you're going to have a baby in the house.

You've give him 8 years and loved him and done the best you can by him. but you can't take chances with a baby. A wait and see approach may not end well... yes, nothing might go wrong, but if it did, it could well be catastrophic.

Flowers
KnittyFoxyMa · 27/02/2017 17:54

I really hear your pain and worry OP, and you are really amazing thinking this whole thing through in advance.
I had a v troubled dog from rescue. He was 4 months when we got him and his problems became visible slowly over the following months. I put off starting a family until he was settled and had my first child when he was 2. He was a stressed dog and I spent a lot of time preparing him by carrying around a doll and caring for it and ignoring him. Interestingly, the ignoring really helped calm him. I had the help of 3 amazing dog trainers in North London, all of whom said that they'd never encountered a dog like mine before and if I'd not rehomed him, he would certainly have been pts by someone else.
We had to have him pts 18 months ago, at the age of nearly 16, just due to old age. He "brought up" 3 children and had a happy life.
I'd suggest you seek further help, I can't assess from afar, but I'm sure a good trainer would be able to advise better.
Big hugs and good luck.

user1484578224 · 27/02/2017 17:49

the dog is large, unpredictable, poorly socialized.
sorry but it has to go.

shelldrew · 27/02/2017 17:48

Have a look into Jan Fennell, The dog listener, Maybe email her she maybe able to help. Her technique works wonders when followed correctly.

caringcarer · 27/02/2017 17:48

Very difficult but you have to put your new baby first. You as parents as the ones whose job it is to protect your baby. I have read too many stories where dogs get jealous and bite baby. Blue cross claim never to put a healthy animal down. Maybe they could re-home the dog in a house with no children. I would never take a risk with my children and especially a new baby. If the dog bit the baby you would never forgive yourself especially as you knew it was a possibility.