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Rock and a hard place - My dog and new baby

707 replies

Lemondrop09 · 26/02/2017 10:29

Perhaps AIBU is the wrong place to post this, as people can be very scathing. Please be honest but gentle with me!

Sorry this is so long.....

I rescued my dog over 7 years ago, when he was 8 months old. He'll be 8 years old in a few months time. He is a large cross breed (two guard breeds) and weighs over 40kg. He was poorly bred and poorly socialised and has been mentally screwed up by his bad start. He had multiple homes in his short life before coming to us. He did not go through a proper rescue centre and if he had a proper behavioural assessment, I strongly suspect he would have been put down. He would not have been rehomable - not because he's excessively aggressive, but few rescues will home dogs with even the slightest aggression.

His aggression is fear based. He's scared of strangers and other dogs. If properly introduced to a person or another dog, he's fine. In fact, he's a total baby and as soon as you have his trust, he'll love you forever. We spent so much time and money over the years on behaviourists, trainers and socialisation classes. He improved a lot, but he will always be difficult. We always walk him on lead and usually muzzled (as a precaution, he's never actually bitten anyone, the muzzle in more in case of other dogs) and actively avoid other dogs on walks. Walking him is stressful, but we mostly get out and back without incident. We do not bother introducing him to any people he does not need to know, instead we usually shut him away when we have visitors. However if we have overnight guests, he can be successfully introduced with a bit of time and lots of sausage!

Ok, so here's the main issue. When I got him seven years ago, I was not remotely thinking about children and had also expected an 8 month old puppy to turn into a normal dog with enough effort. I underestimated how much genetics would play and that he would never be normal. I thought I could turn him around completely. I couldn't,

I am now pregnant with our first child, although it's early days. It's been a very hard time as I've had hypermesis gravardium and have been (and still am) very unwell. I haven't got out of bed in weeks, and DH is working full time, running the household and sorting out dog. We normally split the dog walking (as Neither of us enjoy doing it due to stress) but he's done it every single day without complaining, even though I know it makes him miserable. I feel awful about it.

Both my SILs and MIL have never had any time for our dog. They aren't animal people and can't forgive him for his issues. As such, we have never introduced him to them. I find them quick to judge him and they all clearly think we should simply get rid of him. Now I'm pregnant, they've already started asking us about what we're going to do. It's so upsetting that I've asked DH to tell them to lay off.

Thing is, DH and I have known for a while that we would need to make a decision eventually, and we've had circular discussions but there's no easy answer.

We've tried for this baby for over a year and it's very much wanted. It's going to be hard enough have a newborn, without the stress about whether or not our own pet will harm it. Also (a more minor issue), our dog can be demanding and pushy. When he wants a walk or food, he will pace and whine, and drive you crackers. This behaviour when I'm sleep deprived with a screaming newborn is likely to push me over the edge.

DH is likely to have to pick up the dog walking for the majority of the time, as I cannot safely walk my dog and a buggy as I need two hands if an off lead dog approaches us (I might be able to cope with a sling, but still doesn't feel safe to carry a newborn and potentially deal with a dog spat). Getting a dog walker is not really an option, as our dog needs 1:1 care from someone who can handle him. I got this dog before DH came along, he's had a very difficult dog thrust on him which he wouldn't have chosen. DH does so well with our dog, but I know he does it for me.

I've tried to consider whether it would be realistic to keep the dog separate from baby during the day? Then let the dog out with us in the evenings? Once the baby has settled and is bigger there's a chance they could be introduced carefully.

Or can they? As I said, my dog is only scared of the unknown and very good when he trusts. The home he came to before is had 3 children under 10 and he was fine with them, but that was years ago. He has never shown aggression to a child, but then again we've never let him very near to them. He's a darling with us, and I do think he has the potential to be fine with our child who will be familiar and constant to him.

But how the hell do we ever find that out? Can I really actually try introducing dog and baby, or is it too risky? I feel like it might be irresponsible to even try.

He's a big strong dog. He occasionally jumps on us if he gets excited. He's heavy and his claws are sharp. He has hurt us both without meaning to. He could easily knock a toddler over, even if being friendly.

Thing is, I love my dog. Nightmare he is, but he's my nightmare and I'm responsible for him. I never wanted to be that person to turf out their pet because a baby turned up. My worries are genuinely to do with safety and whether this situation is manageable.

Thing is, even if we decide we can't do it, he would be impossible to rehome. There are thousands of perfectly nice dogs who can't find homes. My dog will be 8 years old, with aggression issues and also expensive seasonal allergies. Literally, no one would want him. I've had professionals say to be "he's lucky he has you, because I wouldn't put up with him!". I don't want to rehome him, but even if I decide to, I really think we would struggle to find him a home. He'd hate being stuck in kennels long term as he'd be so stressed, and I fear a rescue centre would simply put him down.

If we can't keep him, and no one will take him, the only other option would be to have him put to sleep - which is unthinkable.

I feel totally stuck between a rock and a hard place. DH and I have had this conversation so many times and never come up with an answer, because there isn't one! I think deep down I know it would be difficult, if not impossible, to manage such a situation safely. But I can't bear the idea of turfing out an elderly troubled dog and where on Earth would he go?!

So please be gentle. I'm pregnant, hormonal and ill, and I love my dog very much. So please be honest, but I can't handle a flaming right now.

OP posts:
dowhatnow · 27/02/2017 18:58

A friend of mine is now 50 but has had to live with a completely scarred face for most of his life... You can't risk it. Sorry but you just can't. You sound like such a responsible dog owner. Now it is time to be a responsible parent instead.

chubbylover78 · 27/02/2017 18:58

I have a rescue dog with similar issues. You could try playing a recording of a crying baby at different times of the day whilst using a toy baby doll as a prop. If he starts to show an interest and gets too close you can tell him to sit/lie down etc and using a clicker reward him with a treat. I know it's early days but if you really can't face having him put to sleep little things like this can give you a rough idea on how he will react to you paying less attention to him and more on a baby. I know i sound off my rocker! But i saw a programme years ago where there was going to be a new baby in a house with a cat that was aggresive to strangers and certain noises. It's a long shot but it might help give you piece of mind. You don't know until you try And training a dog is all about doing things gradually until you and the animal are comfortable and confident in each other.

Sundance01 · 27/02/2017 18:57

I do sympathise with you and regret to have to add another spanner in the works. You have made a huge mistake posting this. If the worst happens and your dog did bite your child if the Police chose to open even a small investigation they would find this post and prove you knew the dog was potentially dangerous. You would almost certainly go to prison.

Littlepiglittlepig3letmeIN · 27/02/2017 18:54

Our whole lives were dominated by keeping her calm.
Anyway, we finally realised after a 'near miss' incident involving an excited child launching themself at me that we were living in a state of constant hyper vigilance and stress and were playing Russian Roulette with the safety of others.

OP do you want to be living that kind of life?

Vermillioncomfyshoes · 27/02/2017 18:54

My pets ignored the baby for the first couple of months and were very aware that she was precious

How on earth can a dog know that?

twinnymummy16 · 27/02/2017 18:53

I'm sure I'll get shot down in flames for saying this but we have 3 kid ( 4 and 2x4mths)and 2 dogs. One is aggressive to other dogs but rolls over with humans and the other barks a lot but show some fear when intro to new people. (Hiding behind us and barking) I don't trust either with the children despite neither of them showing any signs they would hurt them but I wouldn't trust any dog rescued (which mine are) alone with my children. We have sectioned off the house the downstairs for dogs and upstairs for kids unless supervised downstairs. My husband does all things Dogs and I manage the children. It works well with the split of both house and responsibilities. The dogs get extra fuss once the kids are I bed we sit with them all evening. I don't think this situ is impossible Smile

NataliaOsipova · 27/02/2017 18:53

I think you have to at least try. You owe it to the dog. There are plenty of other posters on here who have managed it - listen to their stories and advice.

I see it the other way round - you owe it to the baby to give him/her a safe home. And, as others have said, the baby's "rights" trump those of the dog. Every time. Plus - someone else's story, with a different child and a different dog is, in the end, irrelevant. You have to weigh up the potential different outcomes, the probability you place on that and whether you are prepared to take that risk. What is the chance that the dog attacks the baby? Or attacks the inquisitive toddler the baby becomes? Or one of that toddler's little friends? Are you prepared to take that risk?

Can I ask what your DH thinks, Lemondrop? What has his advice to you been? Clearly, as the baby's other parent, his views on the risk and the acceptability of taking that risk should be seriously considered as well.

DorcasthePuffin · 27/02/2017 18:53

And OP does NOT 'owe it to the dog' to put her baby at significant risk. Not in a million years.

DorcasthePuffin · 27/02/2017 18:52

I truly don't understand all the posters saying, 'give it a try', 'give it a chance', 'you can't punish a dog for something it hasn't done yet'. Now, I get that with a normal dog, there will always be an element of risk but it is at a level where if you are thoughtful and proactive in managing the situation it is worth giving it a go. Nobody is advocating euthanizing ANY dog because a baby is coming.

But THIS dog? This dog who lunges without warning? This dog who cannot be part of mainstream society? This dog who has to be driven to a distant field to go off-lead? What kind of evidence do you think the OP should wait for? Do you really think it's ok to wait to see if this huge, disturbed dog actually attacks a baby?

Littlepiglittlepig3letmeIN · 27/02/2017 18:51

We use stairgates and have to be on alert all of the time even though the dog hasn't ever shown any signs of being uncomfortable I still don't trust him 100%.

What kind of a life is that - where you have to be on high alert all the time?
Surely your children and later on any visiting friends, have a right to feel relaxed in their own home?
It sounds very hard work and once it reaches that stage, the pet is not really bringing any positives to family life.

Fififerry1 · 27/02/2017 18:50

My heart breaks for you.
We had a rescue dog with very similar issues. We homed her at 4 months and couldn't have imagined that she had already had such damage inflicted on her that she would always have such unpredictable fear based aggression.
She was the most gorgeous, loving pet. Absolutely devoted to us and our (older) children. We loved and adored her. We too spent a fortune on behaviourists and the top dog psychologist based at Livepool University. We were desperate to make her as safe as possible.
The difficulty was that she was unpredictable and whilst normally fine (particularly with children and other animals) she was extremely protective of me and the children and if she felt we were being threatened in any way could go berserk. This generally involved grabbing the nearest object and tearing it to pieces. There was more but I won't go on as it will be familiar to you. Our whole lives were dominated by keeping her calm.
Anyway, we finally realised after a 'near miss' incident involving an excited child launching themself at me that we were living in a state of constant hyper vigilance and stress and were playing Russian Roulette with the safety of others.
It absolutely broke all of our hearts to make the decision we did after 3 years that we couldn't keep her. We actually managed to place her with a dog foster carer in the middle of Wales (she could never have survived in a kennel and we would never have allowed that). They have since rehomed her twice as she has been returned quite quickly the first time.
BUT I am telling you this because even now 2 years on, every day I worry. About her but also about what she has the potential to do. I know deep in my heart that we should have had the courage to put her down. It was unthinkable to me but I truly know now it would have been the best and safest option.
You have given your dog 8 years of a life he could not have hoped for with anyone else. You are a saint but ultimately you cannot take the risk. The stress you are under now will be quadrupled and you will never relax with your new born. And you shouldn't. Your dog is not to blame for that but you would be if you exposed your baby to danger.
I know this isn't what you want to hear but it would honestly be kinder. Rehoming her would likely send a dog like yours over the edge.
Sorry I haven't got better advice.

Winemamma · 27/02/2017 18:44

What a horrible situation to be in. I really do sympathise being a dog lover/owner and mother of young ones. I hope you can find a solution without euthanasia or letting your dog go. Goodluck with it Flowers x

LizB62A · 27/02/2017 18:43

If it was me, I'd start trying to rehome the dog now, before it becomes a major issue for you.
Then hopefully you won't need to have the discussion about destroying the dog

Littlepiglittlepig3letmeIN · 27/02/2017 18:42

What will you do with your visitors wanting to come round and see the baby? Also it's common to meet up with other mums and babies if you do NCT/antenatal classes. Birthday parties never going to have those at home? Child's friends round? It goes way beyond just having a newborn.

Very good points.

AcaciaYou · 27/02/2017 18:41

I think you have to at least try. You owe it to the dog. There are plenty of other posters on here who have managed it - listen to their stories and advice.

And I say this as someone who doesn't even like dogs; I just think it is appalling how many pets lose their homes when a baby comes along.

Jessicafirsttimer · 27/02/2017 18:38

I have been in a similar situation. We had a rescued difficult sheep killing enormous Dane. We just couldn't 100% say she wouldn't harm a baby. We had her regimes through the Dogs Trust.
The Dogs Trust never put down a healthy dog. So giving him to them is definitely an option. It will break your heart though. DO NOT PUT THE DOG DOWN. There is no need.
If you know the breeds he's crossed with, they may have a breed rescue. Find the breed clubs through google and they will help.

Our kids are now 3 and 6 and we have a Bernese we got as a puppy. She's a tank but she's amazing with them.

Littlepiglittlepig3letmeIN · 27/02/2017 18:36

Wolfie, we do hire a field for him to run in. In fact, he's there with DH right now. It's a bit of a drive so he only gets there on weekends, but it helps

If a dog is aggressive and/or skittish to the extend you have to hire a field for him to be off lead - away from other people and dogs,
then the dog is not safe to be around a baby.

It's tough, but you have to put the baby first.
Don't even take the risk.

Alidoll · 27/02/2017 18:35

Your dog will already know something is up and while he might become a protective "big brother" to your child, would you be able to truly relax when they were both in the same room together? If the answer is no, then I think you know yourself deep down that he can't stay with you and you'd never forgive yourself if something were to happen.

As others have said perhaps the dogs trust might be able to help given their slogan is never put a dog down so they may be able to find someone who could take him on. Definitely worth phoning round places to ask. The very last option would be putting him to sleep. I have a dog and love him to bits (he's an elderly 14 yr old now) and bonded well with my daughter (who is now 7) but I know that had there been any issues, I would have tried to rehome him however painful it would have been rather than put my daughter at risk.

Good luck OP and I truly hope you can find someone to take your furbaby on and let him live out the rest of his life happily. Flowers

Ang73 · 27/02/2017 18:32

Hi there, I can see what a terrible worry this must be for you, however (if you're like me!) It seems you're thinking too far ahead and getting yourself very upset. I understand you have to consider all possibilities and your baby definitely takes priority but I also understand making a commitment to an animal and how responsible you feel for them.

I had an older cat and a young dog when I was expecting my first baby. I was paranoid that something would happen to the baby as a result of my dog, or cats behaviour. The reality is that the baby will be with you all the time. If the baby is napping in a different room you will have the door closed and monitor on! By the time the baby is crawling, your dog will most likely be very familiar with the little one and accept the baby. Of course there is a chance this might not happen but you will be able to gauge this very quickly. My pets ignored the baby for the first couple of months and were very aware that she was precious - they only ever approached if I encouraged it. I did this in a very controlled way so that the animals felt safe and of course to ensure the baby was safe. Too many people forget that the beloved pet is actually an animal with different behaviour to us and they put children and animals at risk by leaving them unattended together. If you do it correctly, having a pet can be a wonderful experience for a child.

I think you need to give yourself (and the dog) a break. You have a lot going on with a first pregnancy and feeling unwell so this is not a normal situation and everything will be heightened at the moment. Take some time to give yourself space from this and step back from it for a while. You sound like a reasonable and very kind person so I'm sure you'll do the right thing when the time presents itself. Best case scenario, your loving dog will accept the baby into his pack. Best of luck with everything.

Cuppaoftea · 27/02/2017 18:32

The situation will become more and more unfair on your DH Op. He will likely need to continue doing all the of the dog walking and most of the care as your pregnancy progresses and after your baby is born for some period of time.

He'll be working full time and then wanting to rush home to spend time with you and your newborn but instead have to spend precious hours giving your dog the exercise it would need after being kept separate all day.

Your dog sounds far too dangerous to live in the same house as a baby/toddler. His size combined with his issues and the fact he lunges with no warning.

As pp have said you've given him a good life.

Flowers
Chippednailpolish · 27/02/2017 18:32

Firstly, congratulations on your pregnancy. I don't want to advise you on what you should or shouldn't do with regards to your dog, but as an owner of a very nervous large dog I wanted to let you know how we handled the arrival of our 2 sons with our dog:

We displayed the pram/moses basket and other baby paraphanalia in the house weeks before the babies were due so that our dog was aware that changes were afoot, this gave him time to get used to it.

When the babies were born, my husband brought a blanket home that they had been wrapped in so that the dog could get used to the scent before the baby came home.

On bringing the baby in to the house, the dog was put in a different room until we were ready to introduce it to the baby, an hour or so later.

Luckily our dog accepted the children straight away as part of our house 'pack' and has never shown any agression towards them (although this means he can get protective of them around others - this is something you may want to consider).

Wishing you all the best with whatever you decide.

Esspee · 27/02/2017 18:30

You would never be able to forgive yourself if anything happened to your longed for baby.

SusieOwl4 · 27/02/2017 18:30

I have two dogs with no problems but I always keep them out of the way when young children are around . But I am lucky enough to have a room I can do this and they are used to it. Now my grandson is older and the introductions have been slow they are fine but I am always on guard . But if either of my dogs showed any aggression then my grandson would come first. However much I love my dogs my family is my priority . I feel really sad about your dilema but you are the person who knows your dog best and how much effort you have obviously put in , so well done you for giving the dog a happy life that it would not have had. I do know a good dog trainer that I could pm you his Facebook page for general advice if you want just to have a chat?

MajorSharpesButtons · 27/02/2017 18:29

I can't believe you're still debating this. Put the dog to sleep before it kills your baby.

TinfoilHattie · 27/02/2017 18:26

Baby trumps dog.

Rehome, put to sleep, but it shouldn't be in your home any more.

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