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Rock and a hard place - My dog and new baby

707 replies

Lemondrop09 · 26/02/2017 10:29

Perhaps AIBU is the wrong place to post this, as people can be very scathing. Please be honest but gentle with me!

Sorry this is so long.....

I rescued my dog over 7 years ago, when he was 8 months old. He'll be 8 years old in a few months time. He is a large cross breed (two guard breeds) and weighs over 40kg. He was poorly bred and poorly socialised and has been mentally screwed up by his bad start. He had multiple homes in his short life before coming to us. He did not go through a proper rescue centre and if he had a proper behavioural assessment, I strongly suspect he would have been put down. He would not have been rehomable - not because he's excessively aggressive, but few rescues will home dogs with even the slightest aggression.

His aggression is fear based. He's scared of strangers and other dogs. If properly introduced to a person or another dog, he's fine. In fact, he's a total baby and as soon as you have his trust, he'll love you forever. We spent so much time and money over the years on behaviourists, trainers and socialisation classes. He improved a lot, but he will always be difficult. We always walk him on lead and usually muzzled (as a precaution, he's never actually bitten anyone, the muzzle in more in case of other dogs) and actively avoid other dogs on walks. Walking him is stressful, but we mostly get out and back without incident. We do not bother introducing him to any people he does not need to know, instead we usually shut him away when we have visitors. However if we have overnight guests, he can be successfully introduced with a bit of time and lots of sausage!

Ok, so here's the main issue. When I got him seven years ago, I was not remotely thinking about children and had also expected an 8 month old puppy to turn into a normal dog with enough effort. I underestimated how much genetics would play and that he would never be normal. I thought I could turn him around completely. I couldn't,

I am now pregnant with our first child, although it's early days. It's been a very hard time as I've had hypermesis gravardium and have been (and still am) very unwell. I haven't got out of bed in weeks, and DH is working full time, running the household and sorting out dog. We normally split the dog walking (as Neither of us enjoy doing it due to stress) but he's done it every single day without complaining, even though I know it makes him miserable. I feel awful about it.

Both my SILs and MIL have never had any time for our dog. They aren't animal people and can't forgive him for his issues. As such, we have never introduced him to them. I find them quick to judge him and they all clearly think we should simply get rid of him. Now I'm pregnant, they've already started asking us about what we're going to do. It's so upsetting that I've asked DH to tell them to lay off.

Thing is, DH and I have known for a while that we would need to make a decision eventually, and we've had circular discussions but there's no easy answer.

We've tried for this baby for over a year and it's very much wanted. It's going to be hard enough have a newborn, without the stress about whether or not our own pet will harm it. Also (a more minor issue), our dog can be demanding and pushy. When he wants a walk or food, he will pace and whine, and drive you crackers. This behaviour when I'm sleep deprived with a screaming newborn is likely to push me over the edge.

DH is likely to have to pick up the dog walking for the majority of the time, as I cannot safely walk my dog and a buggy as I need two hands if an off lead dog approaches us (I might be able to cope with a sling, but still doesn't feel safe to carry a newborn and potentially deal with a dog spat). Getting a dog walker is not really an option, as our dog needs 1:1 care from someone who can handle him. I got this dog before DH came along, he's had a very difficult dog thrust on him which he wouldn't have chosen. DH does so well with our dog, but I know he does it for me.

I've tried to consider whether it would be realistic to keep the dog separate from baby during the day? Then let the dog out with us in the evenings? Once the baby has settled and is bigger there's a chance they could be introduced carefully.

Or can they? As I said, my dog is only scared of the unknown and very good when he trusts. The home he came to before is had 3 children under 10 and he was fine with them, but that was years ago. He has never shown aggression to a child, but then again we've never let him very near to them. He's a darling with us, and I do think he has the potential to be fine with our child who will be familiar and constant to him.

But how the hell do we ever find that out? Can I really actually try introducing dog and baby, or is it too risky? I feel like it might be irresponsible to even try.

He's a big strong dog. He occasionally jumps on us if he gets excited. He's heavy and his claws are sharp. He has hurt us both without meaning to. He could easily knock a toddler over, even if being friendly.

Thing is, I love my dog. Nightmare he is, but he's my nightmare and I'm responsible for him. I never wanted to be that person to turf out their pet because a baby turned up. My worries are genuinely to do with safety and whether this situation is manageable.

Thing is, even if we decide we can't do it, he would be impossible to rehome. There are thousands of perfectly nice dogs who can't find homes. My dog will be 8 years old, with aggression issues and also expensive seasonal allergies. Literally, no one would want him. I've had professionals say to be "he's lucky he has you, because I wouldn't put up with him!". I don't want to rehome him, but even if I decide to, I really think we would struggle to find him a home. He'd hate being stuck in kennels long term as he'd be so stressed, and I fear a rescue centre would simply put him down.

If we can't keep him, and no one will take him, the only other option would be to have him put to sleep - which is unthinkable.

I feel totally stuck between a rock and a hard place. DH and I have had this conversation so many times and never come up with an answer, because there isn't one! I think deep down I know it would be difficult, if not impossible, to manage such a situation safely. But I can't bear the idea of turfing out an elderly troubled dog and where on Earth would he go?!

So please be gentle. I'm pregnant, hormonal and ill, and I love my dog very much. So please be honest, but I can't handle a flaming right now.

OP posts:
user1487696927 · 27/02/2017 20:13

Hi I am a veterinary nurse and have worked with difficult dogs in the past. Even with dogs that have had no previous aggression be it from fear or dominance under no circumstances should they be left with a child. Children do not understand dog behaviour and will often pull their tail and get close to their face which can sometimes lead to the dog feeling threatened. If I were you whilst you are pregnant, play a voice clip of a baby crying and children playing- I'm sure you can get these on YouTube. This will accustomise him to the sounds your baby will make. If you have already purchased baby items, i.e play equipment, bouncers and carry chairs put these out so he can get used to them. If you ask your local vet they should have adaptil, you can get this in a collar, a diffuser or a spray. It is calming pheromones that will calm him. You can use this indefinitely. When introducing him make sure he is on the lead but not being held back too much as this can be counter productive, just enough that you can pull him away if necessary. you may have more control with a halti as he is a large breed. It may be advisable for him to wear a muzzle during the first few introductions just to be on the safe side. Get his claws trimmed so that they are not to sharp, you can also buy some safe claws which are rubber nails that you can glue over his exsisting nails, this would ensure that not as much damage would be done if he were to paw at your baby. Create a 'den' a place that he feels secure, fill it with his bedding, toys and kongs and get him used to it so it becomes his safe place. A large puppy crate would be ideal. Dogs can get jealous when a baby arrives so as hard as it sounds try to give him attention as well as the baby. Use treats as a reward, if he takes a step towards the baby, say good boy and give him a treat, if he sniffs the baby, say good boy and reward with a treat. This will enforce the fact that the baby is nothing to be scared about, and can actually be a positive thing with treat rewards. Please remember though that sometimes dogs can be unpredictable and if he did spontaneously go for your baby I would consider contacting a charity and if none would help I would contemplate PTS. I'm glad you gave him a home when others may not have given him a chance. If you need any help, feel free to send me a private message and I will do my best to help.
Good luck xx

dowhatnow · 27/02/2017 20:13

Oh FFS - We are advocating this for THIS dog. This DANGEROUS dog, not for all dog owners expecting a baby. It is called being RESPONSIBLE.

Sorry for shouting.

Zebraar · 27/02/2017 20:11

Stunned at the number of people telling OP to end a life!
Alarming to think this cold attitude will then be passed down to next generation by these 'caring' mums.
The world is going to ruin with this heartless quick fix disposable attitude to other living things.
Terrifying.
The dog hasn't even done anything! I'll have the dog

chubbylover78 · 27/02/2017 20:08

Lynm63 if you bothered to read my posts you would know i have a dog that doesn't get on with other dogs. A no im not offeting to rehome the dog due to the fact i don't see why i should cause my dog any undue anxiety.
And there are plenty of people willing to take on older dogs and dogs with all sorts of problems. DOGS TRUST NEVER PUT A HEALTHY DOG DOWN FFS! so try them before making a deciaion you will regret op because 8 is not old for a dog.

dowhatnow · 27/02/2017 20:07

Oh chubby. The op is late thirties and had trouble conceiving. If she had put it off she might have forfeited a family for the sake of a dog. You would be right if she took the dog on knowing it would have continued problems, but she took it on believing that its problems could be alleviated. Despite much time, effort and cost, this hasn't proved to be the case. Should she sacrifice her chance to be a mother? Dh wasn't even around at the time. Should he sacrifice the chance to be a father?

I take my hat off to the ops dedication to a dog that even professionals say they would have given up on long ago. IMO she's a saint for that. No way should she give up her dreams of motherhood or be made to feel guilty for doing so. That is one lucky dog to have been given such a great life for 8 years. Better 8 years than not be given a chance at all as a dangerous puppy.

Please op do the right thing for your child and enjoy your child stress free. Don't be made to feel guilty by posters such as Chubby.

twinnymummy16 · 27/02/2017 20:07

Little ladybird14 couldn't say it better myself clearly! All dogs should have a degree of caution. Our baby gates are separating dogs and children

littleladybird14 · 27/02/2017 20:03

Can i just reiterate what i mentioned in my post, ANY dog, ANY breed, ANY temperament is capable of causing harm to adult or child. The softest of dogs can turn in an instant. The advice with all dogs is to never leave child and dog alone and exercise caution at all times. All dogs are wild to some degree, they dont speak our language, they cant fully understand what is safe and acceptable.
I understand this dog has a history, as does ours but its about being sensible. Keeping baby safe is number one priority and that might mean keeping dog separated from the room you keep baby in. Shouldnt ALL dog owners adopt this approach? Attacks are usually when dogs and children and left unsupervised. Its doable and who knows the dog might just adapt like ours has. His outside personality hasnt changed and strangers at the door, window cleaners and potential burglars think hes the most feared dog, unknown to them a bit of cheese and the offer to play fetch and hes all yours!
I just think the OP should give the dog a chance. Adopt caution as EVERY dog owner should with children, more caution given your concerns. Look to rehome if you cannot keep him, im sure he would be rehomable to the right person and dog charities would take him on the basis a lot are against PTS especially if dog has never actually caused any harm.
Flowers

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 27/02/2017 20:01

I wouldn't wait - OP has been very honest that her dog has to be muzzled and kept away from other dogs . It's not a normal situation dog wise

gardenrosie · 27/02/2017 20:01

What a dreadful situation, I feel so sorry for you.

Its easy to contain a baby, but as the baby grows into a toddler and then a child will you be able to keep them separate then?

We have a puppy and small children (puppy is 18 weeks, youngest is 18 months, eldest 6 years old). I thought hard about getting the puppy and decided it would be manageable - ours is a fairly easy puppy and its still been incredibly stressful. Its near impossible to keep them apart, when we go to the park the toddler wants to toddle so she is inevitably on the ground in the same space as the dog (toddler has also just become too heavy for the backpack on dog walks).

Our dog has been quite easy to train, but the challenge is the toddlers behaviour - however many times we warn her not to pull his tail/ go near him when he is eating/ sit on him she things he is fascinating and I have to watch them like a hawk. I can't imagine how that would play out with a large dog who I didn't trust 100%.

Lynnm63 · 27/02/2017 20:00

Right and telling the op that once she's pregnant whilst offering no useful advice is helpful how exactly? Take it you're still not offering to rehome the dog or serve the ops prison sentence if god forbid the dog mauls her baby.

bigearsthethird · 27/02/2017 20:00

You surely can't take that kind of risk with your babies life? As he can't be rehomed you really don't have a choice but to put him to sleep. You've given him a lovely 8 years but you need to think about your baby.

Queenofhindsight · 27/02/2017 19:58

I think once baby is born, it will be an easier decision to make. Make sure it is your decision, no one else's. You don't want to end up resenting hubby, or worse! resenting baby for you having to give up your dog. Good luck! x

BertrandRussell · 27/02/2017 19:57

It's frankly shocking that anyone calling themselves an animal lover could possibly think that moving an anxious, damaged dog out of his home where he has been happy for 8 years away from his family into an outside kennel is more humane than pts. So wrongheaded.

chubbylover78 · 27/02/2017 19:57

Judgypants lmao
It's not a case of judging but surely if you know that your dog is no good around strangers or other dogs then you should consider what should happen to that dog if you wanted children before actually attempting to conveive. It's not the Dogs fault so why should it be put to sleep just because the op couldn't come to a decision beforehand. Afterall they had a year to decide.

FeeLock28 · 27/02/2017 19:54

What does your vet suggest? He/she should be able to give professional advice, or recommend where you can find it.

Certainly the idea of a very slow introduction to the smells and sounds of a baby has merit.

PageStillNotFound404 · 27/02/2017 19:53

How much outside space do you have? Could you build a kennel/pen for him to live outside? More humane than having him put down.

It's really not, for a dog used to living in the house with his family. It's a fast track to separation anxiety actually, and the OP really doesn't need any new issues to have to deal with.

Ticketybootoo · 27/02/2017 19:52

Firstly I think you sound like a very caring person and a very sensible one . I guess this is your first baby ?
If so I would be cautious about this dog and a baby and it all going well not least because babies take up a lot of time but at this stage you don't know whether your delivery will be a breeze or not and how you will recover afterwards . This may add pressure to your situation . I would think of a rehome for him if poss as there is a risk to your new baby by the sounds of it . Good Luck with everything Flowers

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 27/02/2017 19:51

And remember you gave him some very good times and a happy life - and he would have been out down earlier had it not been for you

Oh this makes me sad Sad

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 27/02/2017 19:49

Oh wow - you know I am no dog lover but sounds like you did your very very best and you are not blinkered about your hound

Just the first para scared me though

I think better happy times with you and a peaceful euthanasia to be honest

I am so sorry OP Flowers

costaricachica · 27/02/2017 19:49

No brainer surely!!!!???? Newborn baby or known to be anti social and aggressive dog?! Errr..... The dog has to go.

Every single year poor innocent children are malled to death by a family pet. That poor baby that had its head ripped off by a staf a year or so back made me lose sleep.the parents knew it had a shady past. How could you live with yourself?

You've tried for a year to get pregnant....I suggest you get your priorities straight.

Lynnm63 · 27/02/2017 19:48

Any of you delightful judgeypants telling the op she shouldn't have got pregnant offering to take the dog....no? Then stfu. The op gave the dog a chance 8 yrs ago, had by all accounts had the patience of a saint has tried everything and loves the dog.
She is now pregnant are you judgypants suggesting she gets rid of the baby as the dog was here first? Ffs, it's a dog a much loved dog but a dog. A dog who may not be able to cope with the upheaval of a new baby.
I have big dogs and kids. Our dogs were fine with our babies and people asked if I was going to keep the dogs when I got pregnant. I was shocked they'd even asked but our dogs were as good as gold with kids, any kids.

Op you have my absolute sympathy, you have a decision to make and if you get it wrong your baby could be harmed. If it were me I'd have the dog euthanised. I've had to have two dogs euthanised through ill health, one whilst I was pregnant. It was hard and I cried my eyes out but they feel no pain, they just fall asleep in your arms one last time.

a1poshpaws · 27/02/2017 19:46

I totally get where you're coming from when you feel you can't bear to have your dog euthanised. However, I strongly believe that at his age and with his background, that would be far kinder to him than the stress of rehoming. He loves you and your husband. He's presumably been to the vet for inoculations before. He wouldn't know any different when you took him in if you could just keep it together long enough to stay with him and say goodbye.

Basically, it's not fair to him - nor to potential future owners, to rehome him.

Some dogs as you obviously appreciate, can be hugely loving and protective towards a baby - but yours has already unwittingly hurt you and your husband. What would you feel if your baby made a "prey" noise as babies tend to sound like, and the poor dog responded by attacking? Or when the baby is crawling, hurt it just by being big and strong? You really can't risk it.

He's not a young dog - it would in my opinion be kinder to him to have him put to sleep than to have him feel all the stress and upheaval you'd have going on if you tried to mix him and a new baby.

You're not like the people who just turf out a dog cos they no longer want it. You have given a great life to a dog with serious issues. Now it's coming to the time where you have to say goodbye.... if my beliefs are true then you'll be sending him straight to God, not anything terrible.

Sleepymummytummy · 27/02/2017 19:46

How much outside space do you have? Could you build a kennel/pen for him to live outside? More humane than having him put down.

chubbylover78 · 27/02/2017 19:45

But no one has told the op that she was being unreasonable by getting pregnant in the first place, afterall she knows her dog inside out and the problems it has yet she says she has waited over a year for this baby. Surely she should of thought about what she wanted to do with the dog if she ever did get pregnant as she was clearly trying for a baby. Anyone who has a pet is equally responsible for that animal just as they are with any child/children they have. You can't just put an animal down or give it away/abandon it because your pregnant. There are too many animals in shelters because the owners can't cope and too many children in care because parents can't be arsed.

PageStillNotFound404 · 27/02/2017 19:45

The only reason this dog hasn't caused harm to another animal or person is because of the OP's constant vigilance. Do you think most dog owners have to go to the lengths of hiring a field every weekend so they can walk their dog off-lead?

Some of us advocating PTS are doing so as owners of fear aggressive dogs ourselves, precisely because we know how much work goes into keeping the rest of society safe from them, something not easily compatible with a difficult pregnancy and caring for a newborn, and even harder with a dog that doesn't even growl in warning. And also because we don't believe that rehoming - unless the OP can rehome directly to someone she can 100% trust to take this dog's issues seriously and manage them appropriately, which is theoretically possible but probably unlikely - is either in the dog's best interests, given it will almost certainly involve one or more of a prolonged stay in kennels, short-term fostering or failed adoptions, with all the upheaval and stress that will cause the dog, nor is it a particularly responsible course of action to offload a dangerous dog, as Fififerry so eloquently touches upon.

I definitely don't advocate getting rid of dogs as a matter of course when someone finds out they're pregnant. But this is very far from that, and I believe the risks attached to this particular dog make it the lesser of the various evils. I'd be delighted to read that the OP's windowcleaner's mother suddenly turns out to be an experienced dog owner living in a childfree home and willing to take this dog. But as someone who volunteers for a dog rescue, I know how many people are looking for a perfect dog that will slot into their lifestyle with minimal adjustment, and how few are prepared to - or are set up to - take on a dog with any history of aggression.