WIBU to say that choirs full of people who can't sing (Rock Choir) are awful?

A few years ago dh and I determined to watch everyone's Christmas Special. Winner was Andrea Bocelli. Marvellous. But I have to give a special mention to Andre Rieu's one from his castle in the Netherlands, topped off with a rousing rendition of In Der Weihnachtsbackerei.

The thing is, naff though Andre Rieu may be, the musicians are not terrible. There is a world of difference between an orchestra that doesn't play highbrow works and a group of people in a choir who actually cannot sing. Singing in a choir can be a fun, therapeutic activity. But it's all the "We're great! We're so proud of ourselves!" and clapping stuff that is a bit off-putting.

Whats I wouldn't pretend for a second they are the Berlin Phil but the individuals are mostly constrained by the styling and orchestration - it doesn't give much scope for demonstrating skill. I've head a few play individually without realising they were part of the Rieu Machine which changed my original views. They certainly were not untrained or out of tune.

Personally, I'm convinced that the Rieu orchestra was initially set up by someone who has shares in all the world's remaindered stock of 1980s flouncy ball gowns.

Andre Rieu is kind of mesmerising. I love all the frocks.

When DC3 was very young and I got stuck on the sofa out of reach of the remote I watched an entire AR concert. It took me an hour to realise he was speaking Dutch and not just German with an odd accent. In my defence, the concert was in Austria.

There was a bit where he got a tiny little child up on stage to play along on his little 1/4 violin I may have sobbed so I can see where the "schmaltz" accusation would come from.

Coffee, for a professional setup I don't think it is very good. Technically and so on they are not on a par at all with top orchestras. (Which is hardly surprising, because how many professionals would want to play that stuff all the time?)

it's utterly overblown schmaltzy crap

Whilst I agree with overblown and schmaltzy the quality and musicianship is not crap. Its not my taste but that is a different issue to being poor quality music and performance.
I'm amazed at how much the tickets go for though - there is money in well executed schmaltz.

I've sung in choirs all my life, big choirs singing with commercial orchestras and local small choirs. I would encourage anyone to join a choir for the fun, the company and the wellbeing as well as the music.

That said, I didn't enjoy the RC model. There was zero musical education to help the inexperienced singers - everything was by rote with some fairly poor quality backing tracks. Focus was appearances and fees and selling tickets. I never got a clear answer on percentage of take going to the headlined charity. No guidance was given on behaviour when singing at a large event (a first IME).

Members were new singers who believed they were getting professional musical guidance. They made no real progress in my time there and deserved a much better musical experience.

My experience is not universal but I've heard it enough that I won't try another RC. I suggest new singers look first for a choir which covers some familiar and new music. Classical choirs cover a huge range (including crossover) and singing music brings it to life. If the local RC gives the best musical experience then go for it but look at other options.

Andre Rieu appears to be permanent on, on the Sky Arts channel.

I've been subjected to Andre Rieu on numerous TV programmes, but don't feel the need to moan about it. Actually that's wrong, it's utterly overblown schmaltzy crap that makes we want to punch my ears. And that's before I see his gurning.

Meh. Rock choirs and community choirs and so forth all do have a place. If you want to have a good time, in a vaguely therapeutic manner, go right ahead.

I'll stick with my chamber choir - most of whom are well into middle age and beyond, thanks.

Not sure I understand your message Tiger Music IS a performing art - it doesn't mean it always has to be performed, but there is an inherent assumption that written music is designed to be performed, and people are suggesting that people should learn it then aren't allowed to perform it, because the standard of performance offends them. I agree that quality is important, but don't believe Rock Choir dilutes others ability to perform Purcell in small groups to a high standard. Tjat is still eminently possible. There might be people who can't tell what is a good performance and what isn't, just like there are people who love Katherine Jennies and people who think she's rubbish.. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

If music is outside, rock style very loud and imposed on people who have not come into a venue to hear it then that may well breach local noise regulations. if it is a show inside and you cannot hear it outside then people can sing however they like as they are not disturbing others and if people dont't want to hear they don't have to come in.

I love all forms of classical music but I don't impose it on anyone else as I realise Purcell etc is not to everyone's taste.

Choirs are great for people. I've sung all my life. I'm pretty good - never met a professional singer yet (and have often sung with them) who can sight sing as well I can, have absolute pitch, 4 grade 8s etc and could well have become a professional singer but Iike it instead as a hobby. I would simply only join choirs where everyone else is my standard or in the same ball park range and also I like smaller choirs, just a few voices per part and I always make sure it's music I like to sing.

I don't agree singing is always a performing art. Loads of people in all kinds of cultures sing as they work. My teenagers sing in the shower. People sing around and about all their lives which is wonderful. it makes you feel good. It makes you happy. They sing in churches as an act of worship with no clapping at all as it's religious. I sing every day on my own too accompanying myself at the piano for short periods, breaks up the day. Also my parents after our bed time stories sang to us every night when we were small and I did the same for our children. We also have always had tapes to sing to in the car. So not always just a performance art.

However people should not con themselves in any walk of life or hobby into thinking they are good when they aren't. Let us not have top prizes for all you are all as good as each other stuff or excellence gets snuffed out. You only have to go on youtube to see how much better people are than others.

Don't be put off by Bitch comments if you are in or want to join a choir. Check out what your local choirs do, and pick the one that does the sort of music you like. Rock Choir is more commercial and homogenous than a lot of good local choirs run by volunteers and us icons giving their time for free or for little payment. But if pop music, singing in big venues and having a laugh is what you're after, rock choir could fit the bill. As for the whole 'it's forced on me at rugby matches, how is that different from thee loud canned music forced on us all the time at sports events and in shops etc? Singing is a 'performing art' - the clue is in the name for those who think there shouldn't be performances.

I hope so! But who knows with all the insults flying around!

And... did you just call glitterazi glitternazi?!

Lol, missed that! Oops, I'm assuming that was an unfortunate typo and not more rudeness, there's enough rudeness already on this thread

And... did you just call glitterazi glitternazi?!

Keep digging StrangeLookingParasite

Maybe just me, but I'd have thought calling someone stupid was classed as rude, too....

glitternazi, since her opening post to me was "StrangeLookingParasite you actually thought about it and then came up with that load of rubbish?" when I had never addressed her before, who do you think is rude?
I love how being abused for having an opinion is now 'rude'.

You're rude

Helloooo, pot kettle....

Hear, hear, kurrikurri

And I guess you're one of these tone-deaf people saying 'see, I am a real singer, I've sung on stage'. I've heard people say it, and there are multiple instances of it through the thread, so why does it then become a 'silly' comment.

You're rude, and fairly stupid.

StrangeLookingParasite - not just my opinion, everyone responding to that comment of yours thought it was weird and ridiculous... or all we all 'ignorant'? Honestly it's one of the silliest comments I've ever seen on here!

Keep digging.

I belong to a small amateur choir but now I'm thinking of not going back. I'm one of those people who isn't very good at singing but I do it because I've been through some shit and singing helps me to forget it for an hour and it gets me out and talking to people something that I struggle with these days. But I suppose I'm just a shit boring middle aged tone deaf piece of shit

Don't let the miserable sods grind you down. YOU enjoy it, why stop just because of some moaners?
I'm sure you're not tone deaf and middle aged. Even if you are though, so bloody what?! Sing louder and think "screw you, I'm ace" lol

blackheartgirl - please don't give up something you love because of some stranger on the internet spouting an opinion (which it seems many of us don't share)

MN is terrible for ageism and in particular midleageism and sexism. the crap people write about middle aged women as if we are some sort of sub class of inferior stupid human being with silly hobbies and interests is quite astounding.
Middle aged woman seems to be the ultimate insult - substitute it with any other group of people an dimply they are all the same or sub standard in some way and everyone would be up in arms.

If you stop doing what you love you pander to the bigotry. It doesn't matter what a few strangers think, - go to your choir and enjoy yourself, it is freeing and releasing and it is part of you. And I for one love hearing people sing - it's the most joyful thing in the world and I would happily listen to any choir whatever their ability.

Anyone who makes you feel like shit through their words is not worth a moment of your time or energy. Ignore. Do the things you love.

Well thanks op. I belong to a small amateur choir but now I'm thinking of not going back. I'm one of those people who isn't very good at singing but I do it because I've been through some shit and singing helps me to forget it for an hour and it gets me out and talking to people something that I struggle with these days. But I suppose I'm just a shit boring middle aged tone deaf piece of shit