... to expect people who use parent & baby car parking spaces to have children with them?

JimJams, it's a selfish way to think though...isn't it?
But lol at your mums comment

The disabled bays in supermarket car parks are courtesy only cos they are on private land. Unfortunately. Most supermarkets do check them, the exception being Sainsbury's who refuse to do so.

still comes down to they are a courtesy NOT a legal requirement for shops to have them unlike disabled spaces....

Bob at the comments....

ah I don't think the cold is anything to get hung up about- it's only walking across a car park- - think the body is designed to cope with that.

I remmeber when I was being all PFB about ds1 getting wet and my mum said "oh FGS he won't rust".

bob @ the spastic comment.

Bobolinga, that is terrible...the more I read in this thread, the more I understand why people with disabled/sn children get so wound up by a thread of this kind...

Just to leap on in here....a thread after my own sopabox. I have a 3 yo so qualify for M&T space and she has a blue badge cos she is in a wheelchair with cerebral palsy.
yet I've been accosted in both types of spaces. One was another mother telling me to take my spastic to the blue badge space when i parked in a M$T bay, the other time was a person telling me cos my DD is 3 we should be in a M&T space and not using up a disabled bay!
You can't win!
My pet hate is when parked outside my house in our disabled bay...my car has 'please leave wheelchair space' written on it yet shoppers (we live 20 yards from a high St) park to within an inch of the back. No way of evening opening the back let alone putting the ramps down and getting the wheelchair in. So I have to pull 90 degrees across the road and then ramp the child in, holding up the traffic, lots of poeple beeping. And there's 4 car parks scattered off the High St but they charge 20 whole pence.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr
The only reason I have a stupid car is cos of DD. When the other 3 were younger we managed on the bus and by walking. Soon as this city gets accessible buses the car will go. I hate cars grumble mutter etc etc

Eidsvold made a good point there as the road safety thing is often the reason why a motherwith Tots might actually could do with a P&T space, if those are the ones near the door/safe path.
I know for people with non sn Kids this is only a phase, but in that phase they those spaces CAN make the difference.

Mellow, how would you feel the if it is freezing and you are with Kids but can't get a P&T space or anything nearby because they are all full with people that don't NEED it?

I really think that the problem is that P&T spaces are often NOT used with commonsense, , if all the people using them would actually need them, then there would be no reason for anyone to get annoyed about it, lol...problem solved To easy right?

Our local morrisons has 6 P & T parking spaces in the six spaces furthest away from the front door of the shop and another 8 P & T spaces at the opposite end of the car park. (again a good five or six minute walk away from the main door)

I have only ever once been forced to remonstrate with one shopper who took the last P&T place with his WORKS VAN who immediately apologised and moved it to a normal space, then helped me get DS (who was only about ten months old at the time) out of the car and into his buggy.

But i do think that people who park in them because they are closer to the door of the store (and who don't have kids) are being selfish.

3andnomore - yes.....

squonk - if you were disabled or had a child with a disability I think you would feel differently about people who do so using p and t spaces. Essentially they are a courtesy not a legal requirement unlike disabled parking.

my daughter has a disabled badge but was not entitled to one until she was 3!! Made life very difficult with newborn and child with sn who was not walking.

Even now - sometimes we have to abandon shopping trips due to inability to park in either parent and toddler or disabled spaces. She is now 4 1/2 and to look at her you would not really understand why she has a disabled badge - she can walk BUT road awareness and safety are huge issues for us. She cannot walk across a car park. If I just have dd1 then that is okay - but if I have dd2 and when no3 comes along - no way can I do it. So if I can't get a park in disabled bay - park in p and t.

credit/debit cards only for online shopping.

Can I put a little bit of 'from each according to their ability, to each according to their need' in here.
We should have lots of wider, closer spaces for bb cars, lots of wider, closer spaces for P&T, or atleast with covered walkway between the nice wide spaces and the shop. That covers the people who have genuine need.

The 'from each according to their ability' is covered by how much you spend btw.

Then you can have some somewhat closer, somewhat wider spaces which for the sake of argument, we will call 'winker spaces', for all of the people in a rush, people in bmws , businessmen in sportscars buying fags, people with an unoccupied carseats who want to pretend they are with a child etc, etc.

We then just rely on people to accurately guage where they should park.

Oh OK - I know that it all fell apart on that last bit...

I have a disabled 4 yr old and a todler and find shopping a complete nightmare let alone parking.
Would love to try doing my shopping online is it credit cards only or do you pay them when they deliver it ?If anyone could enlighten me i'd be really grateful.

On line shopping and home deliveries ...

and if you book for a Tuesday/Wed with Sainsburys they charge you about 49p

And saves impulse luxury buying and pester power

I am shocked by some of the messages on here,

one day I went shopping with DH, DS and the DDs, DH took the girls out of the shop, in the trolley, while I had DS in the wheelchair at the Kiosk. Anyway, as he approached our huge motability car, with disbaled stickers on the back and a blue badge displayed, this old man started shouting at DH and really going into one, saying 'you can't park there, YOU'RE not disabled' etc!! DH turned round and calmly said 'oh yes you are right, I'M not, but she is (points to DD1) and so is my son who is still in the shop' When I came out with DS in his wheelchair, the man just blushed and got in his car and drove off very fast

People need to realise that children can be disabled, the amount of times I have had dirty looks because I am blatently not disabled and I always get out first to help DS, until I get out his wheelchair, or if he is walking, when he starts walking then people realise he is the disabled one, not me.

The P&T spaces are the only safe ones at my supermarket. The car park is absolutely packed 90% of the time - you have to drive round and round and sit waiting for a space. Some people drive round there like maniacs and DS in his pushchair is pretty vulnerable. And yes I do expect only people with children to use them, unfortunately not always the case. I've been tempted to nip into one before when I've had the car seat in the car with no DS, but I'm so honest I've opted for driving round and round instead .

Is everyone's car park always packed? TBH it never occurs to me to use P&T with my 5 and 2yos. I haven't really bothered with them at all since DD could sit up (at 5 months) and so go in an ordinary trolley. I just part at the back near a trolley bay, and load the kids in that way. Except that I don't even do that anymore. I just park where I feel like, make DS unfasten DD's seatbelt, make them both get out at the same side (2 door car), grab a hand each and away we go to collect a trolley at the front of the store. Then when we get back I open the door for them to climb in and be getting into their seats, unload the shopping, return trolley to nearby bay, reach into back to fasten DD's belt and away we go.

It is really easy. Young children are small and flexible and lithe.

I do realise that I am very lucky jimjams/misdee/peachy etc.

Olive.. no, not once, never ever.

JJ.. I have a new address now which is rather more apt (that one is still active though). It's thewomanthatwas@.....
When you get chance, I will always be here to help, don't fret

JimJams....I was googling to find a hard stare and found this and pmsl

Jimjams - I saw one of your posts much further down this thread. Just wanted to let you know that the handbrake on the multipla is on the right hand side of the driver (by the driver's door) and there are no knobs/buttons in front of the left hand passenger seat, (but middle passenger is in front of radio and gear stick so not safe - big mistake when I let my ds sit there).

you see i have never managed to do the full on arms crossed bit cos am usually clinging on to at least two kids
i just don't make the grade, is there a course i can do?

You can bet the risk assessments will go down the pan if they think that they have to pay for a taxi- then hey presto bus it will be!

Has this been done before?

OJ!

Taxi it is then!