AIBU to think that this has gone way too far?

I am sick of this topic being stuffed in our faces at every opportunity and people trying to make anyone who is uninterested feel guilty. It is a non-issue, unimportant. There are huge issues in the world and we are obsessed by political correctness.

Our parliament has risen up against the pathetic idiot Donald Trump and his lunatic laughable ideas, they are callng for him to be banned from entering Britain. Yet not a single person of the 1200 known who have gone to fight for or support ISIS has been banned from returning to live here - and parliament appear uninterested in that issue.

Let's have a really good idea instead, focus on something important and legislate to allow men to use the same toilets as girls if they feel like it. That'll change the world.

MizK what do you think of people's concerns about opportunists using the loophole in this policy?

Absolutely sex is binary. Ask any farmer. Sure intersex exists and as medical knowledge advances we can see loads more examples of it that would have gone unnoticed years ago. Doesn't mean the entire world of animal biology needs to undergo a rethink.

Anyway gender has nothing to do with sex. Sex recognised -> socialisation begins ---> femininity/masculinity achieved. Most people 'fit into' their genders boxes to a greater or lesser extent. Humans are adaptable and sociable in the main and learn and bond with their cohorts, whoever that is. In a gendered society those social groupings are men/women. In a sectarian society it could be Protestant/Catholic etc etc.

It's a complex process and for some people it doesn't happen that way. At the moment, however there is no evidence for a biological gender, whereas there is loads of evidence for socialisation into gender.

Dorade I understand your point (although I don't pretend to understand this subject properly). Pls correct me if I am wrong but won't sexual dimorphism become less defined as these issues become more understand and accepted? Or have I got that wrong?

And at an entirely mundane level, those with dds still need somewhere to change their clothes.

Agree with others on here who say this has to be dealt with using common sense and respect.

Some girls identify as male to and I'm sure they will welcome this move.

If this decision is implemented with common sense then it will be fine.

The only trans person at my DC secondary school is female to male. They have been treated respectfully and I think that the school's attitude of understanding and tolerance is something to be applauded.

If a male to female trans person wants to be able to use the same bathrooms and changing rooms as my DDs, I wouldn't have a problem with it at all. They are just trying to live and be treated as women. They are not trying to hurt or displace women.

So much of the anger at the way women are treated as second class citizens appears to be directed at transgender people. As they are a small minority who already so vulnerable to hatred and violence, I find this pretty shocking.

I am sure most on here would support spaces for those who feel they are not the sex they are

what I object to is girls/women and it will be us having to accommodate males who feel they are not male

because we always have to, we always have to think of others first and it is expected of us

did anyone ask girls and women how they feel about this no I doubt it because it can be decide for us

Ridiculous. Those born female use female loo, those born male use male loo. If they decide to have a sex change later on in adulthood? I suppose they should use whatever loo their new genitals dictate... It's getting stupid now.

the Nebraska School Activities Association Board of Directors approved, by a vote of 6-2, a policy that allows transgender high school students to play sports according to their gender identity

Maryz as far as I am aware transgender people can compete in the Olympics so that can of worms is already open.

Only if they have had reassignment surgery and taken at least 2 years worth of the appropriate hormones. Which is vastly different from someone who is identifying as transgender but has no intention of undertaking surgery.

Aye, LuluJakey1, tis bonkers.

They give a very few people the freedom 'to'
They remove the freedom from the many 'to'

they protect no ones freedom 'from'

Exactly. There are just widely differing views as to what being fair is.

Well, you get "out and out pervs" in every walk of society sadly.

And obviously, the safety of young women (and all men and women for that matter) is paramount.

It's such a complex subject but you can't ignore the latest medical facts. I know nothing about this but I just happened to catch this programme the other night on Radio 5 Live concerning Dr Imran Mushtaq, a consultant paediatric urologist who works with children with differences in sex development (DDS) at Great Ormond Street Hospital in London.

He said that round 1 in 1500 babies are born with DDS but up to 1 in 100 people have less obvious differences.

"Absolutely sex is a spectrum. It's not binary in any way and we are slowly coming to understand this.

"As a specialist working in this area for the last 12 years, I've seen us transitioning so much in the way we think about sex and the way we treat children in whom the sex is not clear, and we are increasingly becoming aware how complex the issue is.

"How do you define what sex a child is? Is it the physical characteristics, the genitalia - do they have testicles, do they have ovaries or do they have both? Is it their chromosomes, is it their hormones?

"You can have a child whose chromosomes are XX, typical of what you'd associate with being female, yet their genitalia looks like a boy."

I had no idea about all of the above (especially about the 1 in 1, 500 statistic). We are obviously going to have to confront and accommodate these issues at some point in a practical manner, and in a way that protects (as far as humanly possible) everyone's safety.

It is mad, political correctness gone mad. It is about the fear of saying no to or offending anyone incase someone shouts discrimination.
Stupid, ill-thought out and poorly judged rubbish.

No, but you can do your best to make things as fair as you can.

Themouse there is no way to do things that will be 100% fair for everyone.

It's not trans people I am worried about, not many of them, and anyway most just want to get on with things and not cause a fuss etc. Out and out pervs, quite a few of them, but hopefully we can avoid them crossing our path.

It's young lads acting the fool, a few drunk students say, having a larf. Do want them to hit on the hilarious prank of identifying as female to get into the Primark changing rooms where your 14 yr old is spending her pocket money? The assistants won't have any authority to remove them. The only answer is to stop your young teen going into town with her mates of a Saturday afternoon. But likely she won't want to anyway, with lads leering and making comments. A simple pleasure gone, a little rite of passage.

You can extraploate a hundred other situations like that, not dramatic, not newsworthy but restrictive and confining all the same.

On one of the Cologne threads I read how certain swimming places and saunas etc in Sweden have decided to become single sex only because of inappropriate behaviour by men.

There is a reason single sex facilities were invented in the first place, no it's not because of hysterical Victorian ladies and their prudish dislike of perfectly respectable gentlemen.

I do feel sorry for tg people, must be shit. But this inclusiveness seems to be merely validation for them. Validation is important I know but not at the expense of other people's safety and dignity. There must be another solution to this, and no, it's not women's job to provide it for them

But Crazypetlady, how do you live the 'gender you feel you belong to'.
A bit of multi tasking? Not being very good at maths?
And it is schools they are talking about, I would be surprised if the students are sharing with trans students and be 'unaware'.

How can school sports competitions be fair in the sexes are mixed Elsa?

It already is happening here though, and has been for a long time.

I can also tell you my lad plays rugby he's 6ft 3 with size 12 and a half feel he's massive he's a prop any girl who comes in with him would likely to get seriously hurt and personally I don't much like the idea of encouraging my son to physically hurt girls in any way to be honest he would likely give up rugby if it was mixed teams as he would not want to hurt any girl it would mortify him

I am completely accepting of trans rights and this in theory sounds fantastic. I do however see how women could suffer from it. With younger children it would be less of an issue imo. I do think that if they have lived in the gender they feel they belong to for a certain amount of time they shou'd be able to use the changing facilities. We could be sharing withtrans people at any time and be unaware anyway.

Yes introduce this here I sure my 16 year old son would be opting to undress with the girls fucking well stupid if you ask me