To think an English teacher should know the correct pronunciation of Glamis?

Oh, sorry, nomorerenting. I was only being a smartarse about your typo.

jeffreys - jakes, to pun on toilet.

Sorry, I skipped to the end. I'm bad. But, jeeves:

The suggestion that Glamis is an obscure name in English literature is bizarre. Macbeth is one of Shakespeare's most important plays and Glamis is one of the name character's titles - the fact that he is Thane of Glamis, becomes Thane of Cawdor and it is predicted that he will become King is its central theme.

That is not a 'theme'. I'd be more worried by someone who can't distinguish a plot point and a theme.

If you are interested enough in English to do an English degree and become an English teacher where your job is to teach and inspire young people, including in relation to our greatest playwright

Some of us have gone to university post-1880, and no longer accept the 'our greatest playwright' line, as it's very very dated.

Also, if you have learnt anything about Shakespeare you should be aware of metre and that "Glammis" simply can't work.

If you have learned anything about Shakespeare, you should be aware that his metre is extremely slipshod in a lot of places and an extra unstressed syllable is neither here nor there.

Anyway. I don't see how it matters. It's not in any way important to understanding the play (not like the thread a PP mentioned where someone thought P&P was Victorian). It's just a slip. Shakespeare made loads of them.

Kronborg Castle

Jay-kweez. Obvs.

To really set the cat amongst the pigeons:

The character, Jaques in As You Like It :

Pronounced as in the French name, or "Jay-Kweez"?

Knock yourselves out. The correct answer (to be adjudicated by a group of top scholars at the Shakespeare Institute) is the award of a new "Bestest Russell Group English Degree" Mumsnet emoticon, only to be used by the victor .

Bert, I'm not Scottish (dh is) but I'm guessing just as it sounds as Elsinore although don't the Danish pronounce it, Helsinoa or similar.
I can't even remember what the castle is really called although the town is actually Elsinore, is it not?
I'm off to google as my brain seems unable to retain anything these days.

Cannot compute how those words rhyme . Am becoming traumatised by this thread...

DF pronounces it "Glaams" to rhyme with "arms". I'm very relieved!

Look, I can't quote the Scottish play on here because my granny was an actress and its ingrained in me that should I quote it the Internet would blow up or the universe end or something ...

But since egoquis has kindly taken that risk up thread, can I point out that in two of the three examples you need a two syllable pronunciation to get a proper iambic pentameter. The third one you need a one.

My suspicion is that being a jobbing hack, Shakespeare didn't know or care what the exact pronunciation was.

credentials: 1st class English degree and PhD. Too much time studying and watching Shakespeare. Lamentable ignorance of many other great literary works which is what happens if you spend all your time on the canon

Nomorerenting- what's the correct Scottish pronunciation of Elsinore..........

I would judge.
English Literature was not my specialism - I only studied it to O Level - but even I know how to pronounce Glamis.

Holly, even if that were true, both the town and the castle were in existence long before Shakespeare. And both are pronounced, Glamz. Although that negates the whole concept that English teachers show know that more than anyone else.

At the risk of siddling into pedants' corner Holly it depends on the context the teacher was using it.

Quoting from the text "Thane of Gla-miss, Thane of Cawdor." - correct.

but ' If we went to Gla-miss today we'd still see a castle, but that mostly dates from the 17th century.' Incorrect.

But in the overall scheme of things utterly trivial.

I don't think the mispronunciation of a word is a problem in itself. However, any English teacher would know that pronouncing Glamis as 2 syllables would upset the metre. But then, if they've never read/seen Hamlet then how would they know that?

But, it's most certainly Glamz and not Glaams. The Scots would always pronounce it Glamz. Glaams would be a RP interpretation of that.

There is a place in Scotland called Chatelherault. It's my favourite, because the local pronunciation is approximately 'Shat-lee-roe' (shortened it's more like 'Shatly roe'). Cracks me up every time. I am of course side-tracking to avoid engaging with Holly ' s post ??!

"There seem to be a number of posters here who know the pronounciation of everything and the value of nothing."

This is officially my new favourite thing. I intend to use it loads and pretend it's mine. Thank you!

We had an English teacher who insisted on reading the dad part of "The Owl Service" in a faux Welsh accent. When a main theme of the book was that this family were incomers from the Midlands!

THAT kind of thing is far more unforgivable than Glam-is or Glarmz or Glamz don't you all think?

Ditto the O level English teacher who sneeringly told me that "James Joyce is not a 'good' writer"

In other news, I take great delight in finding ways to mispronounce place names to FIL, who is a pedant about such things. So far, my best may be 'Bye-chester' for 'Bicester',at which he went an admirable shade of purple. At Christmas, I shall wheel out 'Gla-miss' and see if I can't make him splutter over his sherry.

That's not an A, by the way, Holly*

They've been banned until all students can pronounce Glarmzzzzz proper.

"RAWR RAWR RAWR RAWR RAWR RAWR RAWR RAWR"

That's from the little-known play Queen Shove. It's the moment where I give up in frustration and do a flashmob dance scene to Steps instead. With the witches from Macbeth.

Thanks, Really. Teaching is a brilliant job. Generally, the grumpy teenagers are the least of our worries.

It's the meddling pedants full of pointless criticism who really make it hard. And Michael Gove.

As an aside:

Excellent detective work Holly.

We're all studiously ignoring your posts, Holly. Otherwise they might draw a close to our latest teacher-bashing thread, and where would be the fun in that? How else are we supposed to get our smug fix?

did you say something Holly? Sorry didn't quite catch it...

(I am joking by the way.

But not really).