To think an English teacher should know the correct pronunciation of Glamis?

OOAOML it supports rather than contradicts the fact that Scottish degrees are 4 years not because they are "better" and should be more highly "prized" but because the first year is there to bring students who have done Highers only (most of them) up to the level of subject specialisation English students should have by the time they have achieved a good A level in the subject (or a Scottish student should have if they have done Advanced Highers/ CSYS) though.

The 4 year Scottish degree is the same as the 3 year degree from an equivalent English or Welsh university, because year one in Scotland is a foundation year really. That is why students with A grades in CSYS/ Advanced Highers or English/ Welsh A levels skip year 1 in Scotland.

Why are schools still teaching Shakespeare? Are you serious?

Yes I am serious.

My argument is that there have been many, many more relevant, appropriate and interesting books written since.

Sure, cover the contribution he made, but why not take the chance to introduce kids to stuff that'll blow their minds & make them think, rather than take the easy option & deliver a lesson that hasn't changed for 50 years (and has been boring kids for just as long)....

I know - I got place offers based on my highers but I was only 16 and totally not ready for university (although actually I wasn't ready at 17 either but hey ho). Quite a few people at my school did sixth year, most doing a mix of CSYS and more highers, some like me doing all CSYS. It was a good preparation for university.

CSYS

Fastrack

So CSYS is the old equivalent of Advanced Highers. You can go directly to Year One of a Scottish degree with just Highers. Advanced Highers/CSYS is the equivalent of A level and fast tracks you to start in year 2 of a Scottish degree with good grades - or can do in some circumstances.

OOAOML It is possible, and indeed common, to go directly to Scottish universities with just sufficient UCAS points worth of Scottish Highers though - which meant more subjects worth less points per subject than equivalent A levels - the CSYS was something extra on top wasn't it?

Actually Salmon I went to school with a boy whose surname was Menzies and corrected teachers who pronounced it Ming-is because his family pronounced it Menz-ies. I wonder if it is a regional thing?

And Iliked i studied CSYS (certificate of sixth year studies) in English (also French and History) and I can assure you there was a lot of specialisation. At the time CSYS was generally regarded as higher standard than A levels. However I'm 42 and sat mine when I was 17 so fully accept I may not be up to date with modern qualifications.

THe comment on "prized" 4 year Scottish degrees is hilarious - the degrees are 4 years because Scottish students cover a broader curriculum to 18, which is good in many ways but allows less opportunity for the subject specialisation of English and Welsh A levels. English and Welsh students predicted 4 grade As (or these days A*s I guess - the stared grades hadn't been invented when I did A levels) including the subject they are applying to study will sometimes be given an offer which allows them to skip the first year of a Scottish degree - I had an offer like that from Dundee (direct entrance to year 2), though in the end its not where I studied.

Presumably we will all be regrouping here on 2nd October?

They seem to be using Scottish accents. However I don't know whether they will be using the correct 1611 pronounciation of 'Glaaayooooormz'.

Milngavie? Love that one!

I don't think RP existed when Macbeth was written.

Pronounciation and accents have changed over the last 40 years, never mind the last 400 - just look at a film like 'Brief Encounter'.

THERE is NO "R" in GLAMIS.

Stop bloody putting an "R" in it!!

I have flicked through this thread in a desultory fashion but I really must take issue with people who suggest Glamis should be pronounced Glarms

How ridiculous - it is "Glams".

I hail from that area originally so that's that.

And "Menzies" is Ming-is

Unless you are Dundonian where Menzieshill is pronounced (wrongly) as Meenis hill

Menzies = Mingis

Dalziel = Dee-yell

Simple

Why are schools still teaching Shakespeare? Are you serious?

More importantly, why are schools still teaching this?

Have no other books been written in the intervening period that are more educational, inspiring and interesting???

Ps- I skipped first year when gaining my prized four year degree. I'm now sad to have not spent that extra year studying as clearly learning to pronounce Glamis would have made me a better teacher.

7 pages too late, but yes to whoever asked, I have a degree in English. I taught in Scotland where we don't have a prescribed syllabus like England. I've read and seen plenty of Shakespeare but haven't seen Macbeth. It's not shocking or terrible, I just have had plenty of other plays by Shakespeare and indeed other writers which I've had more interest in to engage with. It hasn't done me any harm as of yet and I seem to be coping. If I had needed to teach it I would have read it, thus not realising that I would be mispronouncing a word.

Shadow Here is a short video where you can hear the difference.

For example, rhotic speakers fully pronounce the r in words like drawer and father; non-rhotic speakers don't.

English RP is perhaps the best example of a non-rhotic accent. Most American, Irish, and Scottish accents are rhotic.

What does a rhotic / non-rhotic speaker mean?

Montag-you. Metre (all previous discussions notwithstanding) doesn't leave you much room for manoeuvre with that one.

You probably need a degree in theology to understand half the references in 'canonical' English Lit

While we're at it, Romeo and Juliet - Mon-tayg or Montag-you?
I don't have an English degree, it's Theology but it is from Cambridge - not sure where I am in the pecking order.

ghosty I take it you are a non-rhotic speaker? I pronounce the r in arms.

I LOVE Macbeth - I pronounce is Glarms - like arms - I couldn't give a tiny rats wank if other people care about that

Not too long ago, I watched a TV program on here in the States called Haunted Castles of Scotland or some such and Glamis was featured. The Earl of Strathmore (owner of said castle and whose heir is called Lord Glamis) was on being interviewed. I am pretty sure he said Glaahmz with a long/broad a sound. I remember because I had only heard it pronounce Glamz in Scotland when I was a student there. I assume Lord S's pronunciation is because like most Scottish aristocrats he speaks with an English RP accent. I did study the play in high school and was taught to say Glamz.

The Queen Mother was not born there but Princess Margaret was.

I love Macbeth and have seen several adaptations and can honestly say I've never noticed the pronunciation!

Totally agree with that too Bartlett!

Holly, I must have written an essay for my Shakespeare paper on the subject so perhaps I gave myself a dispensation. Am still alive ...

My granny was very theatrical indeed - acting until two days before her death at 82. So I don't quote the Scottish Play and my otherwise brat like children have impeccable theatre manners and have visited the RST at Stratford age 7