To think an English teacher should know the correct pronunciation of Glamis?

I'm from Angus and have heard it said both ways. (Obviously never with an r in it, only a southerner would do that). No one bats an eyelid either way.

Menzies however... No one seems to be able to agree on that!

I have read it and seen it. I don't actually think it is one of Shakespeare's better plays, and I certainly don't believe that the hallmark of a quality degree is having read it. In fact, I suspect it's popularity is mainly due to its amenability to being studied at GCSE level.

Also, the fact that I've seen it is mainly due to the fortuitous fact of having the RSC on my doorstep, and being able to afford their ticket prices. It's not like the play is regularly shown on the TV, is it?

HA HA HA HA HA!

GUESS WHAT i JUST FOUND???

The pronunciation of 'Glamis' in Shakespeare's day was a DISYLLABLE! So it is 'Gla-mis' not 'Glamz'

Brilliant weasel

Exactly, ChickenKorma

But on a general note to posters - read Macbeth - see the play (you can rent a DVD) - it is wonderful.

There seem to be a number of posters here who know the pronounciation of everything and the value of nothing.

I once asked for directions to Beauchamp Place, pronouncing it as if it were a French word (which it is, really) - ie, something like Bow-shon. The very kind woman directed me to Beech'm Place, without emphasising in any way that I'd got it wrong, just a little twinkle in her eye.

I agree with those who say it should be pronounced "Glaams" (not "Glamz"). That's what I've always heard.

I would expect an English teacher who was teaching Macbeth to know how it was pronounced because I would expect them to have seen the play or heard excerpts.

In the scheme of things, I can think of much worse, like a poster we had on MN last year whose child's English teacher thought that Pride and Prejudice was a "Victorian" novel.

A few months ago we were looking at sixth forms for DD. At one we went to, the English teacher came across as much more inspiring and enthusiastic than any of the other teachers, and I had the sense she was a really great teacher. But then she mentioned that the class would be studying The History Boys, which, she said, was set in the 1950s. I saw the original NT production and of course it's set in the 1980s. I was a bit shocked by that.

"Glarms/Glarmz" - I nearly choked on my coffee. Always "Glamz", anything else makes me shudder.

I tend to agree that incorrect pronounciation is not generally a major issue.

BUT

The "Thane of Glamis ..." quote is a key passage in the play and if you pronounce it with two syllables it wrecks the metre. So yes, I'd have to raise an eyebrow at a teacher that is teaching one of Shakespeare's most well-known plays, but has never thought "Hey - that's weird - how come that really famous line has 11 syllables when every other line in the play only has 10. I wonder if there's something odd about the pronounciation".

Unfortunately phrases such as "last week we was writing a critical essay". The spelling annoys me less. Think the whole thing annoys dd more than me though. I may have spawned a pedant

Jeffrey I am very sorry you have never read Macbeth or seen it performed. I suggest you do so. You have a treat in store.

I now understand why the traditional 4 year Scottish degree, with a broad underpinning in 1st year, has been so prized.

Was it in that prized first year that you learnt to pronounce Glamis, then? How thoroughly impressive. I mean, I spent seven years at University studying English to PhD level and didn't study Macbeth (sadly I only read about two thirds of Shakespeare's plays during that time, and a couple of dozen by his contemporaries, which I realise now is a bit substandard). Someone really ought to close down the much more highly rated than Edinburgh department at York down and revoke our degrees.

Shoevetheholly the mispronunciation of Glamis is not an idiosyncratic mistake, because it upsets the metre of the text and how it was written to be performed, which very much undermines the teacher's ability to support children's basic understanding of the language and how it works.

NotMrsTumble that is dreadful. That would annoy me.
MY DH is from Bisham, and spends his life telling disinterested people that it is pronounced Bis-am,not Bish-am, when they make the mistake of pronouncing it that way.
I'm going to see how he pronounces Glamis.

I now understand why the traditional 4 year Scottish degree, with a broad underpinning in 1st year, has been so prized.

A whole extra year to devote to the study of snobby prejudices is golden

One is reminded of this:

Quite.

" I have a PhD in English and history and I had no clue how it was pronounced "

Must be from some dodgy ex poly then

Well put shovetheholly

Notmrstumble - do you mean your child's English teacher actually says 'she was' herself? Please tell me that is not what you meant! That makes "Glammis" fade into insignificance!

Hurrah for shovetheholly!

Probably learnt all that in an ex-poly

I agree it is the quality of the degree that is important. Having a degree in English Literature, I am genuinely astonished that someone with a degree in the subject could be so ignorant and I wanted to understand what sort of University would enable someone to graduate in a subject without an underpinning of the basics.

I now understand why the traditional 4 year Scottish degree, with a broad underpinning in 1st year, has been so prized.

God forbid a teacher should make a common human error like mispronouncing a word in front of your precious loin fruit! Their education hangs in the balance for sure.

Less worried about an English teacher's inability to pronounce Glamis than the reports I'm getting from 13 yo dd of the use of "we was" and other grammar gems and questionable spelling by her English teacher. Still, YANBU.

I have a PhD in English and history and I had no clue how it was pronounced. And here's the thing: contrary to popular belief on Mumsnet, academics in the arts and humanities do not tend to equate knowledge and learnedness with running around correcting other people's pronunciation or grammar. Nor do they see that kind of thing as the be-and-end-all of scholarship. People tend to be more interested ideas and the ways that they are expressed. I've seen very, very brilliant people misspell words. Who cares?

It's the equivalent of complaining that a biologist who can teach your kids about cells in a brilliant way but pronounces 'cytokinesis' idiosyncratically. Does it really matter? The main thing is whether the teacher can break down the play and bring it to life for your children, leading them through it so that they can understand the basic ways in which it works. The mispronunciation of 'Glamis' doesn't affect their ability to do that.

In relation to a PP: yes, it's quite possible to get an English degree without reading Macbeth. The number of works that can be crammed into 3 years of study really isn't huge and most people take considerably longer to master a particular era (even an early one, where it is actually possible to read most of the stuff coming off the press - as soon as you get beyond the mid C18 it becomes pretty impossible to read everything published across a relatively short 50-year period. I've been working in my field for years and there are still absolutely tons of things I haven't read).

There's also a bit of an irony in being pernickity around Shakespearean language, given that the reason he stands at the pinnacle of the canon is his tendency to tear up the rulebook of language and to invent all kinds of creative new ways of using it. If there had been a Mumsnet or a grammar police back in his day, his plays would have spawned AIBU threads galore: 'Hamlet: AIBU to think that 'barefaced' is NOT a word'/'AIBU: what, exactly, is a 'wrangling pedant', Willy?'/ 'AIBU: is it just me or is Shakespeare just wrong in the way he transforms nouns into verbs?'