To protest at the words "Jewish" and "Israeli" being used interchangeabley.

That was to Carol, there doesn't seem to be much history of 'niceness' there at all.

Does anyone think either side has tried whole-heartedly being nice?

If the stopped trying to eliminate the Jews, then life might be easier for them. Israel has tried being nice and keeps getting bombed.

Ego - there seems to be some confusion between W Bank and Gaza. Gaza isn't occupied. There is a limited blockade (a lot less strict than the Egyptian version), principally because Hamas spends its time building rockets and tunnels rather than governing properly.

I don't think that life in the W Bank is a bed of roses, but it isn't very pleasant anywhere in the near vicinity. A lot of people in the West Bank do work in Israel. There used to be pretty much free access into Israel, but that didn't end very well.

..while the same rules doesn't apply to the jewish extremist who arsoned the home of a two year old boy..

Many Palestinians have been killed by Israeli forces in the West Bank but I suspect you know this but don't really care.

Handsup and Ego - there aren't any Israelis (soldiers or otherwise) in Gaza - the random shootings without trial, honour killings of women, and chucking of political opponents off high buildings are being carried out by Gaza's own govt.

Yes there is high employment in Greece however that particular generation haven't witnessed their homes being balldozed, friends shot at by soilders imprisoned without trial - how you can compare the two is beyond me..

YANBU.

I can fully understand the anger and why terrorism would be attractive. And I say that as someone who has lost friends to terrorism.

Much of the anger is justified. Some of it is misplaced with Israel blamed for all Palestinian problems.

Either way, there are more productive ways of advancing the Palestinian cause which don't involve murdering innocent Israeli citizens.

And there's high unemployment in all sorts of places, including Greece. But if young Greeks decided to join a violent and radical racist group such as Golden Dawn, they would be unlikely to be referred to as "friends" by certain Labour leadership frontrunners.

How about, "Son, don't become a racist murderer. It won't bring peace and the majority of the people you kill will be innocent civilians?".

Why would she persuade him not to join? Hamas is totally mainstream in Gaza and plenty of opportunities to make money through corruption.

The Gazan outpost of Islamic state might be a different story.

Patapouf

No, of course Hamas being elected in Gaza doesn't mean that every Gazan is a terrorist and should be treated as such.

But there is collective responsibility. Many Israelis don't support the Netanyahu government. But it was democratically elected and they're also going to have the eat the shit that goes along with it.

TTWK

Agree regarding state and religion.

And also about Israel being the best of a bad bunch in the Middle East. But Israel wants to be (and should be) included among Western liberal democracies and so should be holding itself and compared to others in this group. Thank goodness Israel doesn't have the dire standards of Syria, Lebanon or Egypt.

But where I disagree I DO think people saying 'I don't support Israel' are often not just saying they don't support Israeli government policies. It applies to Israelis themselves (look at Galloway banning Israelis from Bradford!) whereas no-one does that to Syrians, Lebanese or Egyptians. It also often also denies Israel's very right to exist. Last year I walked past a demonstration outside the Israeli consulate. If it had only been about protesting Israeli policies during the war, I'd have joined. But the flags had drawn a map of Palestine with no sign of Israel, including where present-day Israel is. And the slogan shouted was 'Between the river and the sea, Palestine will be free'. Between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea is also Israel, ie Palestine is what will be there instead not as well.

And for the record, the fact that Hamas have been democratically elected is not a defence.

The conservatives were apparently democratically elected but I sure as shit didn't vote for them. They don't represent my views and they don't reflect my beliefs. If another country takes umbrage with the conservatives, do I deserve to be killed because I live in the UK?

Sam & Shak,

I don't disagree in principle, but when one talks about being a fan or a critic of a country, anti or pro, any country, we are usually referring to their government, political system, foreign policy, human rights record etc. Not their mountains, lakes, glaciers and volcanoes.

Syria is a beautiful country, but if I said I was a big fan of Syria, I'm sure I'd get some odd looks, because the whole place is a political basket case.

I'm not much of a fan of any middle eastern country, and the fact that Israel may be the best of a bad bunch isn't enough for me to be a supporter. I don't like theocracies in general. I don't like countries that call themselves Jewish, or Islamic. I wince when I'm told the UK is a Christian country. Countries should not have a state religion.