To be quite angry about proposed changes to 3-4yo childcare- only for ALL working parents?

tanith I do know one childminder locally who will take children with SN and charge reasonable rates but I don't know any who would be able to take my son. My son needs 2 carers to support him as his needs are very complex and very severe. He would also need one of those carers to be trained in administering his emergency meds. Unfortunately most childminders wouldn't be able to take on a child like mine because they wouldn't be able to look after any other children at the same time (which is understandable).
There is a child at my sons SN school who goes to a childminder before and after school and during some school holidays but his needs are less severe than my sons and he doesn't even need 1:1. The childminder charges £40 per school day for one hour in the morning and one hour in the afternoon. In the holidays she charges £130 for the full day (she has other NT children at the same time who she charges normal rates for). Obviously his parents are paying the charges because they need the childcare but it would help if there was more funding available in cases like these.

IvyBean, you are missing the economic point people here are trying to make. Funding childcare so both parents can go out to work and increase their income and therefore capacity to spend more as well as paying taxes back to the government is NOT a cost but an investment in the economy. That is the economic argument for the government investing in childcare for working parents.

Both parents working and paying for childcare and a cleaner will have created employment for the childcare worker and cleaner who in turn will have more money to spend in the economy.

You can of course understand this economic argument but still wish to SAHM.

littlejohnny your absolutely right, I do think the government should allow sahp to share tax allowances. Not 'pay' a parent to be at home but enable the choice of what's best for our families.

Although I know they wouldn't want to encourage it as they want to keep the worker bees paying taxes.

What rot.

We are in austerity,we don't have the spare cash to waste money on families who are already perfectly able to pay for their childcare and fund a cleaner on top.

It is true however that families with a sahp are disadvantaged by the tax and benefits systems.

I'm a SAHM and I don't really get why we would need help with childcare. Surely you are a SAHP because you're choosing to look after your own children full time? Nobody else gets help with childcare to attend interviews etc in advance of getting a job. The preschool education hours will still be available (15 hours in England, variable provision in Wales), should you wish to use it.

Thelittlebooktroll- agree!

It's a tad frustrating the way some people keep trying to make this personal, as if the govt randomly decide to be nice to WOHP and horrid to SAHP! It's simple economics. The govt wants to improve the economy and then there genuinely will be more money to plough into the NHS, education and so on, rather than continuing the depressing borrowing of money which plummeted the UK into deep recession.

As you rightly say, enabling wider access to work means that more people will have more money to spend- and whether they choose to spend it on services like employing someone to be a cleaner- well, that's up to them.

What's becoming increasingly clear is that some people are just entrenched in the politics of envy... They'd be ok with the idea of both parents working so long as those parents are having a really tough time, spending every penny on childcare, and certainly not having anything left over for a holiday or new dress or god forbid a cleaner. But the moment those parents have a bit of cash left over to spend, the resentment kicks in. Even though spending money and using services is what's going to create a stronger economy, and ultimately more money for public services.

Bonkers

So 15 hours a week are still available for all parents of children 3 + and the Me 2 funding is available for lower income families for children 2 + and working families get 30 hours for children 3 +?
Is that most likely what will happen?

I think the 15 hours for sahps will have to go to provide spaces for the 30 hours. I'd like to know how they will define working parents as a wahm.

Many childminders used to provide care for children with severe special needs. In my county, it was provided by the Network childminders, although other childminders provided care, too. We were properly trained and supported to provide it.

Unfortunately, the Daycare Trust published their fees (for sole specialist care of severe needs) in their annual report, making it look as though all childminders were charging the same. It started the "raking it in" backlash against childminders because the media jumped all the £10 fee without troubling to investigate the reason for it or even who was paying it.

The Networks are all but gone now in the Austerity cuts. Childminders are giving up in their thousands because they feel totally unappreciated.

You're right. Children with severe special needs won't find 30 hours free childcare because those of us who traditionally provided it either won't exist any more or won't be able to take the hit of subsidising it.

Personally, I've lost money long enough to the free entitlement scheme. Why should I subsidise other people's free childcare/education when all I get in return is a whole lot of extra work and a kick in the teeth from the Government? Where's my reward for working hard??

IvyBean, Don't worry the government doesn't pay for my cleaner, my salary does. My children are older.

I think you are confused if you think the government is paying for any cleaners. The government is paying for childcare which should make it worth working and give a family a bigger disposable income which is what should happen if you work. If you choose to pay for a cleaner out of the money you are earning them that is surely your choice

Government policies are not made based on anecdotes. Its never going to fit every individual family unfortunately.

put their dc on childcare for 30 hours per week, why are they staying at home?

To post on MN about how exhausted they are?

Yabu. Surely the 15 hours a week for early education is different from the additional 15 hours a week for work parents.

If SAHP think they should also be able to claim the additional hours, and put their dc on childcare for 30 hours per week, why are they staying at home?

We both work FT and 30 hours would really help us - is this what is really being proposed?

Think I'd rather have more money going towards the NHS than enabling families to have cleaners.

The little- ha,ha paying a cleaner,both paying tax,think you live in a different world to many and it certainly isn't the case for all.Frankly if you can pay a cleaner you clearly shouldn't be getting help from the government.It's bonkers.

I don't think 30 hrs for children with severe sn will be possible because there is no one to provide it

Being parent to a child with severe SN I have to say that you are spot on, there often isn't anyone /any facility which can provide suitable childcare for children like my own child. Perhaps the focus (and additional funding) would be better spent on improving access to childcare for those children with severe SN or complex needs. I didn't really want to give up work but I had no choice, I would have happily paid the going rate for childcare even if it left me at a deficit in earnings for a few years, but I would have had to pay £35 per hour for two specialist carers and we couldn't afford that from both mine and DH salaries combined (we both would be in deficit).
It really grates on me when people (not the one I am responding to) imply that being a SAHM is always a choice because for people in situations like me it isn't a choice.

I think it will be 15 free hours for those who qualify because of need (like the two year old funding) and 30 hours if you work. So we wouldn't qualify. I wouldn't want 30 hours at 3 anyway. We are thinking of 2 mornings a week for DS so not taking the whole entitlement as it stands. I am home to spend time with my children. They are only young once!

Both parents working makes economic sense for the government. In our family we both work and because we both work we pay our cleaner, childminder who also then get to work and have more disposable income to put back into the economy, both pay taxes and have savings and pensions to be more self sufficient and less likely to depend on the government. There are of course lots of families in different circumstances but I believe this is the general economic argument which means it makes sense to assist families with childcare. People in work fuels the economy.

I have been SAHM as well as being old enough to to have paid most of my salary in childcare because of no subsidies. I am delighted about this initiative and I think it's a good thing for children that both parents work.

What 32%charged said. Most initiatives of last 15 yrs we haven't benefited from.

In supposed austerity times I'd rather this change wasn't coming in at all. Along with the tax cuts promised (how do they fit??).

If the provision is 30hrs, I'm not sure they can state both parents have to work 30+ hours, as otherwise who exactly would be collecting the child at the end of the session?

Maybe 25+ hrs would be the maximum as half an hour commute from nursery to work would be reasonable although im sure some would say they have 1hr plus commute, but maybe then it would be necessary to look for childcare near work rather than home.

Im a sahm at the moment would love to have a little job without worrying about childcare have now had to leave 2 jobs since becoming a mum due to financially worse off. I think its a good thing that at last that working families could be getting some recognition.

In general I think 15 hours education for all and then 15 hours childcare for both parents working is ok. I don't think 30 hrs for children with severe sn will be possible because there is no one to provide it. Most children I know didn't get the full 15 hours. So those families will miss out.