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To ask what's the beef with benefits?

638 replies

mytartanscarf · 04/01/2015 14:33

Do people think they are too little? That they should be more?

There's always a lot of upset on here about them - about how wrong the government are and how awful life is on benefits. I've never been on benefits so obviously can't judge. But what are the solutions?

I suppose I am asking what should the government do?

OP posts:
greyhoundgymnastics · 05/01/2015 23:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

notauniquename · 05/01/2015 23:05

I don't think it's controversial to say that VW is more prestige that Peugeot, or Ford is more prestige than Vauxhall? sure none are Mercedes, but there clearly still are levels of prestige, (price tags would seem to support this?) and the way in which VW cars tend to hold their value?

(asking can you do it cheaper isn't a bad question, it's one I have to ask myself everyday!)

Essentially it's a computer system issue! not a problem that means the system is broken.
Does that put food on the table then? Does that make it right?

No of course, not, but nor does just proclaiming that the whole system is broken (as some appear to have done in this thread!) what I'm saying is that rather than just shouting it's broken throw it all away and start again, it's probably more beneficial to focus and campaign on that single point. -the problem isn't that "benefits as a whole are broken. (perhaps a thread on how to make cheap meals if you want to talk about putting food on the table?)

I can't see anyone who purports to receive benefits showing that they feel any empathy for anyone working struggling to survive and paying tax to provide the very welfare system that they are reliant on.

That's because they are too busy trying to make ends meet, get a job, feed their kids and defend themselves against ignorant people like you.

Funny, I can be busy working, and struggling to make ends meet, struggling to feed family, struggling under crippling debt repayments, and still show empathy and still ask questions. (should I not ask questions? - I was always told that the stupid questions were the ones that weren't asked? now you seem to suggest it's ignorant to ask questions?)
Is it just maybe impossible to have this conversation and expect mutual respect and understanding from both sides? (admittedly perhaps I didn't show enough, and clearly haven't read all posts properly.)

Plus actually that comment assumes that those in receipt of benefits have never worked, never struggled, never paid tax.

No, it doesn't. the really stupid thing about any arguments like this is that most people (myself included) earn so little that they will always take out more from the state system than they put in...

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8417205.stm

There's a link that talks about tax: and one that actually shows the tax breakdown...
<a class="break-all" href="http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20121106103415/www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/income_tax/table2-4.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20121106103415/www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/income_tax/table2-4.pdf

So maybe I shouldn't talk about tax contributions that "I" make in order to fund the welfare system, since (to compare with America where you get an idea of how much medical care costs, I can say that I have not in my life ever paid enough to even cover my birth, (let alone pre-adult dental care vaccinations etc)

(you also get -since someone was talking about torys earlier) that the top 1% have had the least share in the past ten years under torys than they were allowed to get away with under labour. the bottom 5% of the country under labour earned 1.5% of all the money in the country, (or less), under the tory/lib-dem coalition it's been 1.5% or more, the rich, (top 1%, top5% or top 10% pay a greater percentage of the total tax bill than they have ever paid before.)

The point I'm clumsily trying to make is:
That it's a huge struggle for everyone.
That it's not a situation that I've been in (nor onee that I'd want to be in), so I can only know what I'm told, and only find out more by asking questions.
That sometimes you find out surprising things. -like this coalition government haven't cut taxes for the rich they (the rich) pay a greater percentage than ever before... (and I "the poor" pay less tax).

LeftyLoony · 05/01/2015 22:55

(of course I'm sure greyhound missed the bit where I've said I've been a taxpayer and will be again)

LeftyLoony · 05/01/2015 22:54

Oh goody another one.

Yes greyhound, because I don't make a contribution to society dontcha know Hmm

RufusTheReindeer · 05/01/2015 22:52

helena

She's the gift that keeps on giving!

So no one should get free prescriptions...well that will end well

And I also find it insulting to infer or imply (can never remember Grin) that everyone with free prescription is a wasteful spendthrift and doctors are incapable of saying no to their patients!!

greyhoundgymnastics · 05/01/2015 22:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LeftyLoony · 05/01/2015 22:37

Show off or masochist? Grin
I'd also like to thank Luis for the kindness shown.
In more down times I've felt that actually the majority of people think the way just three people have expressed on this thread. Mainly because I've encountered it from my brother and sister. But I realise that actually I was bloody unlucky, that people like that are the minority.
People like Luis really help. And others. But I'm terrible with names.

Dawndonnaagain · 05/01/2015 22:32

Hang on DawnDonna. I get a week in a tent. Ok the kids come too so I have to make sure they don't trash the campsite
Now you're just showing off! Grin

Dawndonnaagain · 05/01/2015 22:31

Ahh, dd has a chest infection and Dh isn't too well either, between the two...

z
z
z
Grin

Dawndonnaagain · 05/01/2015 22:29

Apologies Luis. And Thank you for your kindness and support. Again! Wine Flowers

LeftyLoony · 05/01/2015 22:29

Yup DawnDonna - I've got to that stage of fatigue where I'm not sleeping so I dropped off at 2 only to have DD up at 2.30, DS at 4. They've spent the day screaming...

LuisSuarezTeeth · 05/01/2015 22:28

I should point out Dawn that I'm not a carer in the same way as you and Lefty are.

Dawndonnaagain · 05/01/2015 22:25

Oh, and as for hours, I told someone on here at 9.30 last night that I was going to bed. I did, until 10.15, although hadn't got to sleep. I still haven't been.
zzzzz!

Dawndonnaagain · 05/01/2015 22:24

As a reflection, by the way, I can get 1.5 taxi rides to my nearest hospital out of the weekly mobility allowance we get. We've got 3 hospital appointments next week. So we go for the most cost effective option.

Yeah, we're rural and the nearest hospital is 25 miles away. £60 round trip, so we too get just under the 1.5 taxi trips.

LeftyLoony · 05/01/2015 22:23

Hang on DawnDonna. I get a week in a tent. Ok the kids come too so I have to make sure they don't trash the campsite Grin

LeftyLoony · 05/01/2015 22:21

Of course we can't Bernice. They're our saviours dontcha know. Will stop these entitled parasites from having any kind of life!

(on the payment of scripts maybe that's just my local pharmacy. They are a bit strange)

Dawndonnaagain · 05/01/2015 22:21

notaunique First of all, welcome.
Now, I suggest you read the thread again. It may look good to you taking all sorts of bits out of context but actually, it just doesn't work.
I am aware that others don't have the odd glass of wine.
I am aware that there are very, very few people that put in the hours that I do, that Luis, Derek and Lefty do. We probably put in more hours than you do on a weekly basis. We don't have holidays, breaks, days off. We don't get a great deal of support. Your posts are long, a tad incomprehensible, unsympathetic and downright rude in parts.
I am sorry you appear to think that carer's are greedy, not entitled to breaks and shouldn't (albeit for very, very short periods of time) put themselves first on occasion.
I am sorry you have an inability to comprehend the (really very basic) ins and outs of the mobility scheme, points such as how incredibly important it is to have access to 100% reliable transport (the odds are higher with a new car, it really isn't greed) and the lifestyle choices we have made in regard to looking after our disabled families.

HelenaDove · 05/01/2015 22:20

Rufus Check out handcreams comments on the thread "NHS in a state."

BerniceBroadside · 05/01/2015 22:17

LeftyLoony, I must look like a dodgy, wasteful git then as I always have to pay when leaving a prescription! (Well I don't now as I have a pre-payment card, but I still have to show it beforehand.)

On the subject of being on benefits or a low income I would simply like to comment that it's always shit not having much money. Always. Money doesn't buy happiness, but it sure as hell buys food and shelter.

Can we stop vilifying the poor now and focus our wrath on the bloody Tories and their one percenter mates?

AshesOfRoses · 05/01/2015 22:11

Shit, Lefty...

Flowers
LeftyLoony · 05/01/2015 22:08

I know Ashes, hence the Citroen.
Mind you even that's easier than 2 invacare paediatrics! They've got 22 inch wheels!

LeftyLoony · 05/01/2015 22:07

Plus actually that comment assumes that those in receipt of benefits have never worked, never struggled, never paid tax.

Up until five years ago I had spent 16 years in work, 5 more for DH, paying tax. Me at higher rate for a few years. Circumstances dictate that for the moment we can't. Doesn't mean we won't in future.

AshesOfRoses · 05/01/2015 22:06

r.e cars and SN pushchairs, the McClaren Major is stupidly long and I could only find a few which had the boot space to accommodate it.

LeftyLoony · 05/01/2015 22:05

And working 22 hours a day within their own homes caring for disabled kids at the moment.

School tomorrow can't come soon enough.

LuisSuarezTeeth · 05/01/2015 22:04

I can't see anyone who purports to receive benefits showing that they feel any empathy for anyone working struggling to survive and paying tax to provide the very welfare system that they are reliant on.

That's because they are too busy trying to make ends meet, get a job, feed their kids and defend themselves against ignorant people like you.