To ask what's the beef with benefits?

Daisy I'm sure if you had backed things up with facts, it would be different. But you haven't.

Maybe time for a rethink?

If you had bothered to read the sanctions you'd see that they are totally unreasonable and unbelievably unfair but I suspect that you haven't.

Daisy I have reported your disgusting and abominable accusations regarding Derek to MNHQ. I sincerely hope they ban you this fucking time.

Daisy Is this thread about benefits in general or jsa/income support? The highest percentage of benefit money paid out is for state pensions. Does anyone have a beef with that?

In my case I found myself suddenly widowed last year and for the first time in my life I became entitled to claim benefits (child tax credits and widowed parenta allowance). Im now a single parent, I've got three kids to support and and yes I work so please make it clear who/what exactly you feel is the real problem here. We are not all skiving, workshy layabouts and I resent that people on benefits are all lumped together to be demonised and ridiculed.

Last comment, Derek you know as little about me as I do about you. All we both have is words in a debate and posts on MN.

Nice cop out Daisy
You have nothing to offer the debate and we know it. Coward.

Yes I'm sure I'm in for a long wait. The smug sanctimonious Daisy hasn't got any experience, knowledge or evidence. She knows fuck all. And she probably never will. Imagine the poverty of imagination and poverty of empathy she's bringing her children up with.

Where did I say there should be no JSA? Not mentioned a number of children either, that should be limited naturally by the amount a person can financially and emotionally support in changing circumstances.

I'm all for a welfare state for those who can't do any type of work or short periods in between redundancy, that's what it should be there for. What I object to is choosing to live on them by choice, relationships break down all the time but it doesn't warrant a person incapable of working. Whilst there is a choice not to lots will take it. There are lots thigs taxes are spent on that people consider a waste whilst others don't.

As for sanctions before I disappear as jobs to do, of course mistakes will be made as people are human. Should be ban all cars as accidents happen. Of course not. Sanctions are there for a reason and I believe there is an appeals process and appeals rate of pay whilst the query is resolve if a person believes the sanction was invalid.

Interesting debate though, I wonder what other countries pay out and how long for. I think ours is one of the most generous.

Ilovesooty, it's an anonymous forum so giving out job details etc is not wise. It's not relevant to a debate anyway where everyone can have an opinion.

I've given my own time to help Derek review her CV Daisy

I know the efforts she's put into up skilling and job seeking.

What's your experience of employment and job seeking interventions? Go on. We're still waiting.

Sooty I think your in for a long wait love.

I've been in trouble a couple of times here over the years, but it isn't usually for providing evidence!

Daisy, you're just showing yourself up, love, not me! My 'opinion' is backed with facts, shall we discuss yours?

But I expect Daisy will still refuse to read it or claim it isn't true.

Still waiting to hear about your first hand experience in employability advice and support Daisy...

they get benefits whilst job seeking so nobodies starving the children

But you just recommended they not be given money for all of the children because they had too many.

The "benefits" whilst on JSA, no matter how many children (you do get that each child costs money, right?) barely cover your bills, never mind food or anything else!

In an ideal world everyone would be working, Daisy but this is not an ideal world, and if miraculously tomorrow all JSA claimants find a job well that your pals out the job center with a job because they won't be needed will they. Some might say the unemployed who you have such a downer on are keeping JC workers in work

I would LOVE not to have to rely on tax credits to top up our income and I have a good work ethic thank you very much.

And in my experience there has never been an abundance of jobs.

Daisy

OK then read this:

You’re a 60-year-old army veteran who volunteers to sell poppies for the Royal British Legion in memory of fallen comrades. You’ve applied for dozens of jobs – including the supermarket where you sold the poppies – but without success. You are sanctioned for four weeks.

Source: Daily Mirror

You get a job interview. It’s at the same time as your job centre appointment, so you reschedule the job centre. You attend your rearranged appointment and then get a letter saying your benefits will be stopped because going to a job interview isn’t a good enough reason to miss an appointment.

Source: Daily Mail

Your gran dies during the night. The next morning your partner calls the job centre and asks if you can come in the following day instead. The centre agrees, and you sign in the next day. Then you get a letter stating that you failed to sign in and would be sanctioned if you don’t reply within seven days. You reply, explaining the situation. The job centre gives you a six-week sanction for not replying.

Source: Mari-claire M at Netmums

You’ve signed in on time, been to interviews and applied for work. Your job centre advisor suggests you make a two-line change to your CV, which you do, but fail to give the updated CV to the job centre (you weren’t told you had to). You are sanctioned for four weeks.

Source: nciaw36 at MoneySavingExpert

You work for 20 years and then miss a job centre appointment because you haven’t had the process clearly explained. You are sanctioned for 3 weeks.

Source: Councillor John O’Shea

You get a job that starts in two weeks time. You don’t look for work while you are waiting for the job to start. You’re sanctioned.

Source: The Guardian

You are forced to retire due to a heart condition, and you claim Employment and Support Allowance. During your assessment you have a heart attack. You are sanctioned for not completing your assessment.

Source: Debbie Abrahams MP

It’s Christmas Day and you don’t fill in your job search evidence form to show that you’ve looked for all the new jobs that are advertised on Christmas Day. You are sanctioned. Merry Christmas.

Source: Poverty Alliance

You are given a training appointment that clashes with your job centre appointment. The job centre is unwilling to rearrange its appointment and tells you to get a letter from the training organisation. The training organisation says it doesn’t provide letters.

Source: Russell Brown MP

You apply for three jobs one week and three jobs the following Sunday and Monday. Because the job centre week starts on a Tuesday it treats this as applying for six jobs in one week and none the following week. You are sanctioned for 13 weeks for failing to apply for three jobs each week.

Source: Pontefract and Castleford Express (via Benefit Tales)

You miss your job centre appointment due to the funeral of a close family relative. You are sanctioned.

Source: Derek Twigg MP

You’ve been unemployed for seven months and are forced onto a workfare scheme in a shop miles away, but can’t afford to travel. You offer to work in a nearer branch but are refused and get sanctioned for not attending your placement.

Source: Caroline Lucas MP

You have a job interview which overruns so you arrive at your job centre appointment 9 minutes late. You get sanctioned for a month.

Source: jsdk at Consumer Action

You can’t afford to travel to look for work so you get sanctioned.

Source: Citizens Advice Bureau

Your job centre advisor suggests a job. When you go online to apply it says the job has “expired” so you don’t apply. You are sanctioned for 13 weeks.

Source: Penny at Yahoo! Answers

Not Tory bashing just sourced facts.... from across Tory and other political favouring media.

You took the words out of my mouth or should I say key board, Dawn.

Why is it smug to expect people to work to support themselves?

It isn't.

I forgot the MN mantra is to not utter a word about people choosing to live in benefits

Again, it isn't.

But your unshakeable belief that "benefits are a lifestyle choice" and that "the MN mantra is not to utter a word about people choosing..." is entirely in your head.

It sickens people who have not chosen any of their circumstances. I'll remind you at this point why you had to name change before - your opinions were a little extreme weren't they?

Daisy, your naiveity is astounding. Where are all these jobs? In case you didn't know there aren't enough jobs to go round. Next time you're in your local supermarket, take a look at how many self service tills there are. Improved technology equals no work for humans. Millions are out of work across Europe, There are no jobs for them. In an ideal world everybody would support themselves. Even if you're lucky enough to have a job the chances are your wages would have to be subsidised by tax credits because successive governments refuse to set a realistic minimum wage. Wake up to what the real problem is, it certainly isn't caused by people who have to rely on welfare.