To wonder if a lot of people who are Christians have had a rather nice life?

Of course arguing with the devout is pointless, blind faith defies argument. It fascinates and mildly infuriates me that they are prepared to make vast assumptions and infer things in a way they wouldn't in the rest of their lives.

I think that attempting to relate circumstances to patterns of behaviour is a futile past time.

People are individuals and for as many you can find fit into a pattern, there are as many who could be regarded as exceptions.

I think this is a good thing, makes life interesting. I am a Christian, my life hasn't all been easy by no means. However I draw strength from my Faith. I like that it allows me not to worry, that it allows me not to judge others.

I honestly wouldn't know where to start, with judgment. Loving people, in spite of their faults, is easier, in a way, you don't have to attempt to find a reason all their behaviour. People are fallible. This, I find freeing.

I'm always surprised and disappointed when I discover otherwise rational, intelligent, well educated people are ignorant enough to confuse suspension of critical faculties with faith.

Trying to argue someone out of having faith is like trying to persuade someone it's rationally wrong to like the taste of Stilton cheese on account it's rotten cow's milk. It's a logical argument, but utterly pointless too.

I am always suprised and disappointed when I discover otherwise rational, intelligent , well educated people are Jesus creepers.

I can't help thinking less of them when I realise they've totally suspended their critical faculties to buy into a world of woo woo and fairy stories.

stillliving

Maybe just getting your feelings out on this thread are part of a small step forward for you.

You are loved. Utterly and unconditionally. I'm so sad to hear all you have been through. Like the lovely cloutie says, faith is messy and for messed up people. It's not black and white. And you are so welcome over on the prayer threads if you want to come and have a safe place.

thinking of you.

Just wanted to send you prayers and hugs. If it helps I am a Christian but actually have a lot of self loathing issues that have nothing at all to do with that (I.e, no one has judged me, it has nothing to do with guilt for sin or anything), it has a whole lot to do with my mental health! The fact is sometimes it is hard to pray, but we can do so in simple ways. It sounds like you have rejected yourself. Please don't. It doesn't matter what you have done/who you are the door can be opened. Hey. Of it can for me It can for you. So know that after you have posted this, there will be a lot of people thinking of you and praying for you. In a way, that is a cry for help/prayer in itself. Please don't dive up n yourself, or think that somehow you are excluded.

I didn't think many people were particularly vile, and was surprised that a 10 page thread hadn't descended further! But some were rather blunt. But you are feeling rough, and I know that I avoid stuff that makes me feel 'upset' when I am fragile (which is every day for me... I read this thread very tentatively).

Thinking of you. And praying you get the strength and comfort you need.

You've been through so much. If you don't mind me saying, I think it sounds as though you are being really hard on yourself. Could you give yourself permission to cut yourself a bit of slack?

You'll know the theory - that there is no hierarchy of sins, that God loves all of us despite our screw ups, and that he doesn't love your friends any more or less than he loves you.

Still,

You are obviously loving and lovable. so sorry life is shit some times/ all the time.

It never feels like one is loveable when one is depressed.

Been there, have theft shirt and scars.

Can you cherish yourself? Give yourself three things , one for now, one for soon, one for emergencies? Eg, I'll make myself s cup of tea now, in 20 mins I'll go and look at x on the tv, If life gets worse I'll use the bath stuff I have been saving, eat the chocolate in the cupboard....

And think about the things you can do? V v hard...

And see the Dr. Meds and CBT both really good ideas.
Faith helpful, as long as doesnt make you feel guilty and worse.

Not an expert, but feel free to pm me. Thinking of you.

OP, I think it's probably because you are 'white, middle class, privately educated, university graduates, plenty of money' and you mostly hang out with people like yourself. If you'd travel a bit, or just take a trip to, I don't know, Stratford in East London, you would meet plenty of Christian people living in poverty, with little education, and who have had a very difficult upbringing.

Or better still, take a little trip to, say, Central America and you will see just how poor people are and they are still very devout and dedicated to their faith.

You could have been describing the CU at the Uni I went to. Mind you, the Uni as a whole tended to attract white students from middle class families.

On paper I should have fitted in at the CU but I never felt that I did. So many of the people there seemed so intense and sure of their faith. I felt much more at home in a church that had a mix of ages and was more traditional. I've met more of a mix of people there.

I've not always been rock solid in my faith. I've had times when I've started off prayers by saying "I don't know if there's anyone out there but ...." . I don't think there's anything wrong with being honest like that. Feel free to come and join us on the prayer thread if you think it'd be helpful.

Your OP question made me laugh, but here goes. Im a single parent, have grown up in a lower working class family, I dont think I have had a terrible life but I dont think its been a breeze either. Just because someone is middle classs and looks to have a naice life on the surface doesnt mean they have. I am a Christian so wondering how you reached your conclusions. Thats like me coming to a conclusion about Asian people or anyother type of people because i know one or two.

We are all struggling, religious or atheists.

, Jesus talks about Hell hardly at all and says he came to save sinners, reserves his opprobrium for those who don't help, eg Dives or those who hurt children. Even then repentance is possible,think of his companions on the cross. If you are trying your best, God is understanding. Jesus didn't have things the way he wanted them always, he had to take the chalice that was given him and he was miserable about it, even though he accepted it.

Tbh, I'm glad for people who are always happy, but Job wasn't, Jesus wasn't, the psalmists were often despairing.

I can quite see why it would be a terrible experience, especially if family, social life or other reliance were based in that community.

But read Job, because that's kind of what they said to him. And he survived and God supported him in ways that would have been comprehensible to his peers in the end. ( he got more cows.).

I think you can give up on them, but don't give up on love. And if you don't give up on love, in times when you feel like it and times when you don't, that's all anyone can ask.

I can't recall of which mediaeval sinner it was said

Mercy I asked, I mercy found, betwixt the stirrup and the ground.

We don't know what happens, we can only trust and do our best, be sorry for our deliberate errors, and act with love.

Thank you both.

Leaving the church and losing my faith was a very sad affair indeed. I did meet some lovely people in there too. I think I probably had an extreme experience that is all bound up in a very terrible period of my life. I don't think I could ever be part of a church again, too painful. I would love one day to have some kind of settled feeling of spirituality if that makes sense.

How are you today op? You've been in my thoughts. I love ancients response because that is so very right - to pursue love is to pursue God because God is love.

plot I am so sad to hear of your nasty experiences. People are flawed and get it wrong. No excuse, but you don't have to live in the shadow of those words said over you or in the shadow of a fear about hell. If you can imagine God as the most loving parent, besotted by her beautiful baby, that's how God feels about you, and that's the truth you can live in the shadow of, as it were. I can understand if after that you never want anything to do with church again, but I still hope you are able to be set free from those words.

plot your experience sounds awful. im sorry you went through that. it isn't a true reflection of the many genuine caring churches out there - its a shame some people use and abuse christianity to get on like this and have a devastating effect on peoples lives. but many churches and christians genuinely care and want to pray and help and understand struggles are ongoing. i myself have struggled for years and have had so many prayers for healing, and yet still struggle. ive just become closer to God through it and grown stronger in a lot of different ways, but have met a few misinformed christians along the way who think they can pray for me and i should be 'fixed' instantly. we can't judge God by a few christians who think they know best.

Oh and many of those demons were there because I had the audacity to be struggling after they had prayed for me.

I have the same fears about hell hanging over my head after my church experiences, it is very hard to shake, I try not to think about it. I was told I had demons, was lovely.

The church is full of human beings, in my experience.

If you are flawed and struggling, you'd be made very welcome

Those of us who are perfect probably don't need it . Jesus said that he came for the imperfect, not the righteous

What a lovely response ancient.

Agree Genz, lots of nasty responses here but I would expect no less sadly. The church was just full of nastiness in my experience.

I hope you are ok OP.

Lovely response ancient and from Mr Wallet a page or two ago as well

There are some vile responses from so-called Christians on this thread.