To wonder if a lot of people who are Christians have had a rather nice life?

stillliving - I agree, you can't choose whether or not your lose your faith, I absolutely didn't mean to imply that you could. Just that, for me, an assumption that I would lose my faith just because tragedy had now hit me was illogical.

All my friends from the Christian union at Uni were very middle class, had very conventional family backgrounds, detached homes with names not numbers, high earning dad, sah mum, parents actively involved in the church, you know?

Is that not because they were at university rather than because they were Christian?

Actually my experience is the opposite - people who I've met who have really shitty lives have turned to religion as a way of coping or giving them hope.

I agree with Skinnyflatwhite, really, that you're oversimplifying things and generalising.

But if we're in the business of generalising, you might say that people who've been through real hardship in life have more reason to be steadfast in their faith.

I guess you didn't hear Justin Welby on Jeremy vine today then? Was very moving hearing the story of how his baby daughter died.

Cross posted, sorry!

I did notice that about Christian Union where I was too!

the church I currently attend has members who are crippled by debt, victims of DV, have traumatised adopted children, have disabled or SN children, have been through the care system, are functionally illiterate and are well below the poverty line.

It also has members who have seeming perfect 2.4 families, are millionaires, live in leafy suburbs or beautiful villages, have private educations for themselves and/or their children, have well paid and stable jobs and enjoy good health for themselves and their families.

Gah. I should have said, Russia under the Soviets, when the Church was demonised.

YABU. I turned to Christianity when my life was at its lowest ebb. I was desperate; my (d)h was about to leave me and 2 year old ds, we lived abroad, I had no job, no money, and I had no hope. I had no way to pay my rent and local social services basically told me I would have to put my ds in care as I had no way to earn enough to pay for childcare and support us.

Believing in something else when life is hard was the one and only thing that held me together. I actually turned away from the church ( Assembly of God ; super fundamentalist American evangelical hysterical happy clappy stuff) after, when my life got better, because of their stance on many things, not least homosexuality. But I am thankful for the fact that they gave me solace and actual practical help at a time when I felt utterly alone.

I believe poorer people tend to be more religious. Most third world countries are very religious. What else do you have when you have nothing?

I think people turn to God more in tough times, so I do feel your premise is false.

fuck no. and some of us swear.

where to start?

how about bullied at school for 10 years, and though I hate to admit it I could fit right in with the stately homers, (and dad more so as he was quite badly neglected) been out of work on and off for years at one stage (temporary contracts) and escaped from domestic violence. (all of which I have put on here somewhere or other at some time.) throw in the usual (at my age) bereavements and a miscarriage, a child with ASD

I do think my life is comparitively easier than a lot of peoples lives and am very fortunate. On thing that has helped is faith in God. not saying I have not ranted at him at times about the unfairness of life at times though.

what you see on the outside of people is not necessarily what is going on on the inside.

Mmm. I'm your classic 'pretty nice life' Christian, but I think the extremes are quite common too. The church I used to go to, in quite a deprived area, had a really big congregation and lots were people who were, frankly, in the shit.

I also tend to wonder because as I understand, the fastest-growing Christian populations aren't in the UK, so maybe we're difficult to analyse. In Russia, a lot of people clung to Christianity while leading really pretty appalling lives - because it was something meaningful. I think it's quite likely for many of those people, they weren't naturally Christian or religious, it was just that religion meant keeping faith with the idea there would be better times soon.

So I think it's very complicated to analyse why people might be Christian, and it's never going to be as simple as having a nice life!

I don't think Jesus had a very 'nice life' (in the way you describe it).

I do know what you mean, that a lot of Church of England types are the way you describe and it's almost an English middle class cultural thing like being a Muslim is for people from other cultures (who are not particularly devout but follow a few customs). I don't think you can tar everyone with the same brush. There's a lot of Christians in Africa and India who do not have nice lives at all, but their joy and gratitude is amazing.

i suppose its easier to have a faith if you've loads to be thankful for

Sorry, but again, a totally naive statement.

Think about it.

But He isn't there to give us 'things'. God exists to love us, not to give us a house and a car and pretty face.

I know a Christian couple who seem to have it all. They are so nice and very dedicated to their faith. I do admire them and wish I could be more involved in the church as I was when I was single and struggling.

I think it's harder actually.

Our friends in Africa are FAR more faithful and real in their beliefs, every single day. They're thankful to God for everything - living past 40, having healthy children, sending them all to school and further education, having jobs and money coming in - every little thing in their lives is provided for by God (they believe). Their answer for anything is "Pray - God will provide" and so far, he has...

It's far harder for Christians here where you have to almost consciously remember to be thankful and faithful

I think YABU

I know many Christians who fit your description. And many more who don't. On balance I think the groups are about even. Christians (and probably all other religions) come from all walks of life and all levels of health, wealth and happiness.

Anecdotal I know but strong Christians I know include the following:

• family whose daughter died aged 5 from a heart condition
• family with 4 boys all with ADHD, ASD and/or EBD
• single lady with depression, emigrated to UK to try and provide for her disabled mother and sister. Earning NMW and sending half of it back home.
• lady who lost both her parents before she was 10 years old
• countless people who have lost husbands, wives, parents, children or close friends to cancer
• many people who don't know how they're going to manage financially from one month to the next.
• several with a variety of mental health conditions incl depression, bipolar, self harm, eating disorders and schizophrenia

My Dad died when I was quite young. Many friends assumed that I would lose my faith after that. I remember saying:
'if I believed in God when countless children starved to death in Africa or were killed by a Tsunami or when whole countries were decimated by war then how can I stop believing in him just because one person that I love dies too?'

I wasn't personally offended, but honestly, to wonder if 'a lot of people who are Christians have had a rather nice life' is just plain naive. On re-reading your post, I assume you are basing your views on your knowledge of just three or four Christians? Because honestly, its just not a balanced view, IMO. (I'm not a devout Christian or easily offended).

I don't know about easier, but the bible does say it will be easier for a donkey to get through the eye of a needle than a rich man to be saved. Of course this does'nt apply to all rich people.
I do know from experience that people get closer to God or find him when they have been stripped of everything