To NOT want my husband to have a makeover and dress as a woman?

florafox As usual, you are displaying a total lack of understanding about trans issues and why people surpress them and hide them.

This is an emotive subject for me because my ex-stepdad has been living as a woman for the last 10 years after having started out "just" cross-dressing from time to time. My mum couldn't cope with it and their marriage broke down, not necessarily because of him wanting to live as a woman, but because his personality changed enormously and (s)he became a very self-centred and unpleasant person.

The thing is, if your husband is feeling more and more that he wants to dress as a woman full time, it's not something he can just keep private. I think for all your sakes, it's worth seeking professional counselling to establish where on the spectrum between occasional cross-dressing and full on transgender he is. This isn't going to go away.

Annie unconditional love? Really? Unless you view women as supportive handmaidens to their husbands, you must be kidding. The love between a woman and a man is based on honesty and trust, it is not unconditional. If this is an intrinsic part of himself, he should have been honest about it before she committed to him but he wasn't. The OP discovered this and only when she was pregnant and didn't want to be alone. I would hazard a guess that the reason he didn't tell her before they were married is because he knew she would not accept it. He should have given her this choice and an ability to find another life with someone else before she was pregnant with his child. The OP did not get the chance to cut him loose at the offset because of his dishonesty.

You are shaming her into accepting something she does not want by saying this is about her prejudices but hey, it's the woman's role to support the husband, right? To make sure his needs are met, right? To put her own needs / desires / boundaries second, right? No. All women have a right to define the life and relationship they want and to define their own boundaries without being shamed into putting their husband's needs first.

Madwoman; I agree with you.

Even if the money isn't a problem, it's a bit like there being another woman in the marriage and the other woman comes first, always.

Grayson Perry is an artist. He designs the most boring scarfs in the world for Liberty and makes pottery that is equally as boring.
He dresses up in the style of a 1950s little girl, ankle socks, frilly dresses and bonnets.

His dress style is disturbing.
He seems to be embraced by the BBC.

The thrill is totally about passing btw - nothing sexual, future. Which suggests absolutely certainly that this dude is ready to test the water and put himself out there. And that's a really brave thing to do, because it doesn't always go well. No one seriously wants to run the gauntlet of getting beaten up in bars.

I know a guy who used to go out and drive at night, dressed, as a half way house, before he went to an agency.

It's a big step though.

From private cross-dressing to using an agency. And then (I'm betting) they'll be pressure on the wife to head out to the Rubber Ball.

Once the ball is rolling...

And this stuff is expensive. The agencies aren't cheap, nor are the outings, nor the ball tickets, and the hotel stays and the specialist clothing and make-up, and then the treatments to retard hair growth so that the make-up looks more realistic.

I get that the op feels a bit like Alice In Wonderland tumbling down, down, down.

He's still the same bloke though.

Have you contacted the Beaumont Society yet?

(I am wondering if I've been hiding under a rock, btw. Who the actual feck is Grayson Perry?)

I wouldn't be happy with it, but it's harmless. I feel bad about my lack of sympathy.
And I liked Grayson Perry a lot.

Like I said - it's not going to go away. He may tell you it has but it won't. And he wants to explore this side more - but paxtecum is right that it can take over your life which may be an issue.

It is unfair on him to ask him to stop. It's unfair on you for him to want to be dressed up around the house if it makes you uncomfortable.

So a middle ground needs to be found. But he may want to keep pushing the boundaries on what is acceptable to both of you.

paxtecum, it's not the OP I'm being harsh to, I accept that she is just a product of the society in which she lives. Indeed, she has read the responses on here and realised that she should probably do a spot of self-examination on the issue.

The people I intending to be harsh to are those who seem to think it's the OP who is the one being treated unfairly in this situation.

If explained properly, a child is perfectly capable of understanding such issues There was an interesting programme where children talked about a dad who was a crossdresser Children are very understanding - but the natural (and understandable) reaction is not in front of the children

So something that is a part of him is supressed for many years and that is hard.

My husband cross-dresses. I've never seen it as a big deal. It's just something he likes to do. He has become an expert in makeup and gives me advice, which I ignore because I'm less interested in such things than he is. I don't particularly like the look of him when he does it, but it makes him happy and I honestly don't see it as a problem. I like the fact that he has the courage to do something unconventional - very conventional people make me nervous.

Annie: Op was already married to him and had children when she found out, so cutting him loose would have had consequences.

Maybe 20 years ago DH wasn't ready to live publicly as a cross dresser.
Maybe he didn't want to push back and loose his family.

I think you are being very harsh to the OP.

FloraFox - gaslighting? Really? You're kidding, right? The OP has made her DH repress part of who he is for 20 years because of her own (unexamined and unintentional) prejudices, her own shame in who he is. He had gone along with it, been living as someone he is not, denied an intrinsic part of himself for her.

But the time has come for him that he isn't prepared to do that any more. Good for him, he should have pushed back years ago.

If the OP wasn't prepared to accept this side of him, to truly accept who he is and to love him unconditionally, she should have cut him loose right at the offset.

He is the one who has been treated cruelly here, not her.

It sounds like your worried he is transsexual as opposed to transvestite. Have you asked him? Would that be a problem if he were?

Having only read the opening post I don't think anyone is being unreasonable here.

Seems like you're just trying to find a comfortable place with each other and each others needs.

My XH was a cross dresser.
I understand perfectly why Katie goes out when DH is dressed up.
After our DCs left home XH dressed up more often: dress, wig, makeup, high heels.
When dressed up he took on feminine mannerisms, which I found irritating.

He also would wonder down the garden in a dress, wig and full makeup, sit in the house with the curtains open, sit on the hotel balcony dressed up whilst on holiday.
It made me very edgy, thinking a neighbour or friend could knock on the door or come round to the back of the house.

He insisted on wearing american tan coloured stockings which made his legs look just like his mother's legs.
Luckily he liked long wigs as a short wig would have made him look like his mother.
Imagine having sex with someone who greatly resembles your MIL.

We did go to cross dressing events and met some interesting people.

A twenty stone lorry driver wearing an ball gown and drinking pints is an amusing sight and they know they are too.

Several of you say everyone should be able to wear whatever they want and yes, I agree, but funnily enough some of the event organisers got very upset and shirty if some of the guests failed to follow the dress code, which was ball gowns - hypocrites.

I was married for 30 years and I suppose what bothered me most about the cross dressing, was that it was the most important thing in his life.
It was far more important than me.

It always came first. Holidays were planned around Mardi gras.
Cottages were booked for their seclusion.
It did seem that CD was all he thought about.
We never went to the theatre or out for a meal, but did go to lots of CD events.
But then my XDH was very selfish in many ways.

Yes, ok, we should all be able to wear what we like, but there's no way I would want to have a DH who wore a dickie bow all the time or a shell suit or a dress.

Katie, only you can decide how to proceed.
Best wishes to you and DH.

Yabu. Why can he not dress how he chooses? I don't think it is up to you. It saddens me that you think your children shouldn't see him wearing different clothes as though it is shameful.

"He gets so moody when he can't dress and I'll often go out so he can; when I come back he is a much nicer person. It seems to calm him down?"

I think that's called being happy. Could you stop him from being happy?

As much as you are deciding whether or not to keep him, he will be wondering whether or not to keep you. He's with a woman who doesn't like him. Not his real identity. You like what he's pretending to be, but will he be able to live like that? I usually suggest counselling. Please keep talking. It will not go away.

Transvestites vary from near transsexual who likes to be realistic, all the way to the fetish side of things, such as Grayson Perry. MX Perry does not represent all transvestites! These dressing services cater for all kind of looks. I'm sure they'll have uniforms to evening dresses to ordinary daywear.

To all those who get sensitive about some transvestites going for a stereotypical ultra feminine look, that feminine feeling they will get might have to last them a month until they're able to dress again. And what's the point of dressing like a woman by wearing a t-shirt, trainers and shapeless jogging bottoms? If they want to feel their feminine side, something feminine kind of makes sense doesn't it?

I am with Flora on that - there seems to be a real drive to be seen by others as a woman going on here, not just to 'play' in private. Is this what is disturbing you?

I really am no expert - as I said my own experience was in my teens - but even that made me aware of how intense that desire can be. It can really be very consuming for some people indeed, and that can make it hard to.negotiate in a way which respects your needs and feelings too. Although of course not everyone who cross-dresses will want to live full-time in that gender, and there are quite specific issues which arise in relation to that.

My (limited) understanding of transvestitism is that it is part of who somebody is, part of their identity. It's not a hobby.

We've had these type of threads before. Woman posts saying how disgusted she is. But it's always part of the story that she was aware of partner's preference very early on in the relationship but had shamed him in to denying and hiding his desires and then she feels betrays when it comes out later. I feel it's analogous to asking somebody not to be brunette and then feeling aggrieved when the roots start to show.

Katie it doesn't sound like your DH is respecting your boundaries here. You've told him you don't want to see it or be a part of it but he has continued to ask to dress with you and now he's involving you with discussing this makeover and telling you he would be thrilled if a man approached him in a bar. Sounds like there is some gaslighting going on here. You've said you feel your feelings have been compromised. There's no shame in not accepting your DH's behaviour and no kudos or pats on the back for accepting something you don't want. A marriage is not something to be endured.

You're worried about where this will lead. No-one here knows that but if he wants a makeover and says he would be thrilled about being approached by a man in a bar, there is certainly a lot more to this than simply liking the look and feel of women's clothes.

Your boundaries are important and you shouldn't feel pressured by him or anyone else into accepting something you are not comfortable with.

Are you aware if what it is frightens you so much OP? Are you frightened that he wants to live full time as a woman? That secretly he may self-identify as a woman? That you think he'd really like to undergo gender reassignation surgery? That any or all of these questions makes you not fancy your DH any more? Or the opposite - it really does turn you on? That other people will pick on you, your DH or DC? Maybe if you knew what was going on with you some more it would help you both discuss it?

I was in love with a cross-dresser in my teens - I regret that I didn't understand or support the person I knew as a boy more then. This person is now living full-time as a woman, which has included gender reassignment surgery and hormonal therapy. She is much happier, but has had a hell of a time getting there.

Would I be more understanding now of a long-term partner? I would try, but I think like you, I would find it hard. So please don't feel bad for feeling the way you do - your feelings count here too!

You've had lots of good advice and wise words, OP. I hope that you both can work things out together. Yet again Mumsnet members come to the rescue .

For myself, I would support my husband if he told me he wanted to wear women's clothing, and we would seek help together from support groups etc.