To be a traditional sahm ??

Bonsoir you're referring specifically to distinct jobs. I'm talking about what it's like to be a working adult, the world of work at large, the importance of choices at various stages, role models etc.

My mother worked in a psychiatric hospital, it had bugger all to do with strategy consulting and she still has no clue what my skills are. Was it a problem? Don't think so.

We are all limited in our ability to discuss the adult world with our DCs by our own experience - the best thing is for children/teens and beyond to have a wide variety of adults to call upon and for them to find their own role models and mentors.

I couldn't tell my DCs a thing about what it would be like to be a doctor or a research scientist or a sportsperson...

I also wonder how well a serial SAHM can discuss the world of work and career choices with an older child, I'd they themselves have NEVER worked. A male teenager might just talk to his father about this. By a daughter? Who gives the female perspective? Who can she lean on for experience and advice for how it is for a female in the world of work? The strongest re model she has is that a woman's role is to serve a man and look after the home. Her horizons as a teenager are fairly likely to be quite narrow on this basis I would have thought. Unless she looks at mum and decides she definitely doesn't want that for herself

I would quite like to be a SAHM one day if I could afford it. The 'do everything for your kids, they're only kids once' attitude isn't very helpful in helping them grow into responsible adults though, IMHO.

Oxfordbags at 13:11 that is.

I agree that Oxfordbags s post is good, except for Having too much to prove is as pathetic as subsuming yourself totally into a trad family lifestyle bubble about the trad family lifestyle bubble.

I would say it's nuts nowadays to talk about the trad family bubble. Who on earth nowadays lives in a bubble, everyone on here has access to the internet and a mine of info on anything they might have a hint of interest in.

Also think the previous comments about 'life experience' pretty snobbish as I presume they are talking gap year 'yaah, yaah', or perhaps swanning off to 'save' someone in a third world country. I doubt packing shelves at Tesco or working weekends in Boots fills the requirement.

and I imagine that she gets the school holidays off, thus making childcare issues simpler.
I think she's fantastic if she can raise 6 kids and be a head teacher.
Genuinely.
I know a few teachers. They work constantly. Heads work even more hours. If she can do that with 6 kids, all power to her.

I think the op is no more iyswim.

Apologies Bonsoir. It appears that I had incorrectly assumed that you were a SAHM in France rather than someone with current professional experience of UK public sector workers.
I still think, however, that your use of the word 'useless' is a poor choice as it makes you come across as rude, judgemental and dismissive. Perhaps you meant to say that some of the roles in the public sector seem to you to be a waste of money/ unnecessary or that people have not developed their skills appropriately over the years.

I agree with Handbagcrab's posts. I do think that channelling a huge amount of education and working experience solely into your DC is very insular. Apart from the separate point that higher level education was funded by the taxpayer for a lot of MNetters and it doesn't sit well with me not to share the benefits of that education from age 30/40 onwards.

Pagwatch- I think the every MN has an Oxbridge PhD was meant tongue in cheek.

Amber- it's a shame your MIL doesn't quit the bitching and try to make a positive contribution to the lives of your SIL's DC. That would be the thing to do if she had a genuine concern.

sorry thatpost is awful i still have pine needles stuck under someofmy keys.

I have been thinking about pointint tat out to mil for a while,about not knowing ant different.

My sil has just had baby number 6 and will be going back to work as a headteacher in March when the baby is 3 months old,she thinks its disgusting and is always bitching about her and about how terrible it is,i think she says so much to me because i am a sahm and she assumes i agree with her,I DONT!

I think next time she says it i will gently pointout that even though she stayed at homewith all 5 of her children until they were allat school,she had her first so young that she didnt actually have a career to go back to,so not only did she have the decision to make,she also hadno experience to say whether woh or sah would be better for her or her family.

My sil's kids are all polite,kind and well behaved and seem quite happy,so she is proof it can be done,and also i dont see anyone saying its terrible that the dad goes back to work(although fairplay he did go part time to spend more timeat home a coupleof years ago)plus sil is the main breadwinner so she cant afford not to go back.

I am not sure it does KobayashiMaru.

Handbag didn't say 'every single mumsnetter' - unless you took the flippant 'everyone sahm went to Oxford for a phd' as serious

Handbag, I'm a very poor but well educated sahm, which skews your point a little.

I agree pagwatch, I didn't realise before coming on mumsnet that there was no such thing as a common law wife and have been encouraging my unmarried female friends with dc to get married so they have some claim on various things if it all goes tits up. I'd much rather live in a world where all my female friends could afford to support themselves whether married or not if it all went tits up, but unfortunately we are not there, yet.

bonsoir according to your posts you have a cultured continental lifestyle, fabulous clever children, a fantastic career pre dc, an amazing education etc, etc. I'm sure you are gorgeous and slim to boot. However, you are posting on mumsnet, same as me. I too have had a good education and lots of good fortune in my life, though I don't assume and wouldn't like to think other people were envious of me. It is never good imho to look at someone's outward trappings and try to judge and compare their happiness, self esteem or sense of worth to your own. I'm sure both me and my dh can discuss lots of things with ds as we are both educated and we can also put ourselves to matters outside the home that also make a difference to other people's dc too.

It's not just about dc, I as a sahm support my DH too, it's his turn if you like to push ahead with his career.

When I return to work I expect to work past his retirement year when we will have swapped roles once again.

I'm fed up of this thread, I keep thinking about stuff from it even when I'm not on mn

Maybe the OP enjoys this things genuinely and nothing wrong, if she's happy doing that then fine thought we lived in a free country n all, BUT IT MAYBE SHE HAS NOT EXPERIENCEDVANYTHING ELESE SO CAN'T OBJECTIVELY COMPARE?

I have if course git all angles covered [ smug]

Pagwatch- I agree.

Handbagcrab

I agree with a lot of that too.
The very option of being a sahp may mean one is already in a priviledged position by virtue of having the choice
Equally the 'how can you give up your career' angle is often nonsense for mothers who do drudge jobs because the family needs the money.

The idea that women have any choice at all is nonsense way more often than it should be.

It's why these discussions are often pointless.

The one thing that endlessly shocks me is how often the decisions women do chose to make are so poorly informed. There are often 'why get married' threads where unmarried sahms are saying 'well I assume I am entitled to half - I read that somewhere'.
Do what you like. Do what you must. Make the best decision you can for you and your family. Be as happy as you can. But if you haven't considered your own future it is a folly.

"Channeling all that knowledge, experience and understanding into a couple of dcs when it could be shared with the world feels very insular to me."

Why "insular"? Surely you have DCs in order to enjoy their company and share your understanding of the world with them, first and foremost?

I can fully understand why the privileges and good fortune you describe might make others envious, however.

I guess, a lot of the sahm posts are coming from women who have a position of privilege. Either through their dh's earnings, family money, savings from a previous high flying career etc. There is an awful lot of privilege in my eyes in having a top quality university education (as every sahm on mumsnet went to Oxbridge for a PhD it seems) and then not doing very much with it. Channeling all that knowledge, experience and understanding into a couple of dcs when it could be shared with the world feels very insular to me.

When I was growing up families generally with a sahm were poor. One family were a bit better off and they had a lovely home and mum did lots of keep fit and did Avon, but I can't say the dc have set the world alight (if that is the onus of the sahm, to produce outstanding offspring).

I do think it's disingenuous for people in very comfortable situations to present sahm as a choice without negative consequence for people like the op with no qualifications, experience or substantial personal savings/ investments/ pensions. A wohm is vulnerable to redundancy, restructure etc but she has options the sahm without money, skills or qualifications does not.

I asked what a sahm of school aged children did during the day as I was interested, I wasn't looking to pick holes. I know from myself I find it hard to motivate myself and I would struggle to fill my days constructively and would get depressed, that's just me though.

"Bonsoir- assuming that you are a SAHM living in France, I'm not convinced that you are the right person to comments on whether or not 50 something public sector workers in the UK are 'useless' or not."

Why do you assume (quite incorrectly) that I have no direct, recent, recurrent experience of public sector workers in the UK (as well as in France)? Do you think I don't travel to the UK frequently and have many interests there? It's where I keep my £££, pay most of my taxes and vote...

Sugarandspice, I mentioned my work history because someone asked me if I'd ever worked, not because I'm justifying anything.

defensive!Kerching on the psychobabble bingo
dont forget denial or projection
the mn armchair psychiatrists love all that

Ok Pagwatch am going to back out of this thread slowly if that the case

Intersting isnt it - have been a mother for 18 years and yet noone has ever questioned ( to my face anyway ) what I have done with my time whether SAH or WOH .Lots of parents just getting on with it really and figuring out what works for them. Looking at my Dc and their friends most have done a good job .

Pagwatch- I'm sure that I didn't mention helping with homework specifically- only the word help. I was responding to Bonsoir's post re higher degree, etc being useful.

I don't think that I disagree with you and I wasn't talking about myself specifically, just giving theoretical examples.

Hannah- I see that you have chosen not to respond to my post but seem to prefer to criticise Annie's posts.

Oxford- I haven't seen posters assuming that SAHMs have done nothing prior to motherhood. It is possible that there have been one or two but it is not my overall impression.

The fact that some of the SAHMs on here are getting so defensive and feeling the need to detail their own experience/ previous experience makes me feel that they are not fully confident in their choices and feel the need to validate them on here.
I think Pagwatch has said similar.