Bored by full-time motherhood

whats the loose association with romans.youre rambling incoherently

hehe i expect you could write my posts.no problemo with that whatsoever.
given i write a specific pov from anecdote,opinion,observation and dollop of mirth im sure it doesnt change much on the sahm/working debacle

this is to be expected when one holds a specific pov - unlikely im going to reflect and and hell you know what....aye pack in work.be a sahm,nurture and nourish someone else career

anymore than some of you will say. thanks for sterling advice.i wholeheartedly agree with you sm

Not that they are too timorous but that it becomes too boring to continue a thread as it becomes this sort of nonsense back and forth. It's a derailment, really, and one I'm not interested in pursuing simply because you can't even read your own posts (mine are emotive, yours are... balanced? mine are subjective, yours are.. objective? - lol yourself, your argument is well flawed indeed) Yours and Xenia's points might have been rich and complex the first time they were posted but they seem like so much cut and paste at this stage. Scottish hard graft and babies up on pegs and Romans with slaves blah blah blah and women baking buns while their careers fritter away. Always about choice, as though everyone made a concerted decision and stuck to it always with no room for change or manouevre. Planning it out, hey it's a lifestyle choice, easy if you have a good degree etc etc, everything works out. So smug. Make the point once, fair enough, trot it out at every possible opportunity and it ceases to seem real.

And I am really sorry to hear about your job. What can I say...

Working - thankyou, I was gripped with fear that people were actually recognising my 'position' on various debates on mumsnet and therefore I would have to get a life do more housework instead

I take your point. I could write SM and Xenia's posts myself having been on mumsnet for 7 years now. But if you overlook the bunfight there are interesting an illuminating things said here.

Killingtime- I feel like I am on autopilot much of the time. I don't remember the first year of DD3's life. The only time I got with her was when she co-slept with me at night. You have to fight otherwise you will lose yourself, just disappear.

oh lol,your summation is well flawed,and my god misrepresents the women on mn as wee timorous and afraid to post in case some one disagrees with them

haha,nothing could be further from truth.as we all know most folk can and do pile in.make their assertions and dont acquiesce when challenged. rightly so

your language is v emotive and paints picture of richness and complexities lost.Lost to whom?implication that those who do post have neither richness nor complexity.just a put upon post

Also Norman, it's precisely the variety that's most interesting.. the choice that some have that others' don't, how it all changes when you have two kids or four or more, how income relates to it, the lack of social support in certain circles, the stark financial choices etc.. it's just not as simple as what the sodding Romans did with their sodding slaves!

I am going to lose my job in three weeks, I think.. so very pertinent to me right now.. so I feel your pain.. and childcare, don't get me started.

I'm a SAHM and of course there are times when it's very dull and I feel as though I have lost my identity, BUT for me I feel that it's more important to give these years to my two DDs as it won't be long before they won't need me and then I can do what I want.

Simple in my mind, but I do know what you mean.

I can relate NormanTebbit - I'm coming up to six year SAHM and it gets duller and longer I do it for the more options I fear it closes off.

I realise there are no perfect options though would dearly like to do part-time working but with childcare and transport costs hard to make it worth it - though might change in September when second DC starts school. I have no family round to help and DH works long hours and is often away. At moment three times a day I have to be at school for pick-up and drop off's - which limits have far I can get especially as driving to expensive as we only have one wage coming in.

Not having two wages coming in places huge restrictions on what we can and can't do. I am rarely in the house all day with the DC - I do find a lot of cheap things to do - but even this annoys family, friends who work and occasionally DH who does not 'get' this or the fact is I am in the house I'm frequently busy.

The lack of affordable childcare restricts with volunteering as well - which people often cite as something SAHM should do and again makes it hard to afford re-training courses - even the OU which I am finally doing takes money to pay for the courses.

There can be a lot of pressure to enjoy these years - they have gone fast but when you have three under fours and have not slept a full night in years, have not had a afternoon breather with naps since eldest was 18 months and me time a weekends though promised never seems to materialise - it gets hard.

I do not regret these years and will be back at work at some point - then juggling DC and work - but day to day it can be hard. I have a lot of good memories and as DC are getting older it gets a lot easier but no-one in reality is Mary Poppins every day but I at least feel I somehow should be.

It nice to hear it not just 'me'.

Oddly I never expected to enjoy all the time at work - always thought the money and spending power it brought compensated for those times.

Sorry, NormanTebbit, Hiberno English thing possibly you plural directed at X and SM, not you in the slightest. No idea if you have a default position so probably not!

You're not hearing what I'm saying, but fair enough. I am interested in SAHM/WOHM threads because I'm interested in something specific - women's thoughts and experiences on how and where their lives are at because there's variety there and masses of it. You want the bunfight. The bunfight invites stereotypes and generalisation and I am saying that's pretty bloody dull, really. You don't think so because you see it as "frisson and riposte". My idea of frisson/riposte differs to yours. It is not a matter of my subjectivitiy vs your objectivity. I am saying that saying exactly the same thing in exactly the same way (e.g. Romans outsourced childcare, such and such a person is falafel eating lentil weaving etc) reduces the variety of discussion. It's a pretty straightforward point and I've made it now, so off I trot.

SAHM versus WOHM is "perennial" because some posters make it so. Fair enough, you get something undefined out of making the same point in slightly different ways again and again and viewing it as a diametric opposition. I don't so I'll leave you to it. Just seems a shame, from my POV, that the potential richness and diversity of discussion that could be had of ways of making being a mother work at this particular time in this particular culture gets squashed down into precious moment mama feeding the ducks and baking while her brain atrophies vs cold heartless career bitch proving a feminist point at the expense of her children's happiness.

Norman, I would have read it that way too.
Did you just have rage working9while5?

[puts it down to rage typing]

[stands beside NormanTebbit in act of solidarity]

Do I have a default position? Can someone tell me what it is?

"I really don't understand why you, Xenia and SM too come on EVERY single thread"

As I was the poster above, I thought it was directed at me. I only added with respect as I was stung by you comments which seem to count me out of the debate as my points were not sufficiently nuanced or something...

The point I am making is that for some of us this debate is pretty close to the bone, those of us with several children, crippling childcare costs which mean we are at home, partners who work long hours, or abroad, and it can be a real struggle as ThreeLittleducks put it so well.

Maybe I should just leave it alone. I dunno

again thats your subjective pov "same ole same ole"
sahm/working is a mn perennial.always has been.always will be
if you find it so tiresome,dont post.and just let the thread continue in its own way.

your not a mn moderator so whether or not you find this all so so tedious and been there,done that.well doesn't really matter. that is your reaction to the thread-fair enough. but it isnt in itself a compelling enough reason for me or anyone else not to post.just because you no likey

can actually say some of the best threads are the ones were posters are diametrically opposed and can get a good debate going. i dont need or seek the exact same opinion as myself.thats not point of discursive medium

Lots of typos, sorry

NormanTebbit, I don't understand how your post relates to mine, really. I was specifically raising a point about two posters who I named and a very specific trend of seeing open discussion reduced to stereotypical phrases/tropes/ I don't think "with respect" that how many children someone has or what stage of their life they are counts them in or out of a discussion, and I'm not sure what the relevance of my employment status is to my point, other than that you could insert a patronising "with respect" into the equation?

SM, if anyone had rocked up talking about leaving their kids with strangers or behavioural difficulties in nursery-"reared" threads, I'd have had a good old pop at them about it too. Essentially, a few days ago I was really interested in this thread, had to go away for a few days and came back hoping to read more of women's experiences and thoughts and the variety of life and found we were back to very specific arguments vs anecdotes/stories and I was personally disappointed by that.

It's not about asking anyone to desist.. it's about saying that I wish there were greater variety of points of view on this, really, and that sometimes when a thread is shaping up in a particular way it would be interesting to see where that could go before resorting to the same-old, same-old.

you are over personalising this
so i have a specific pov,so what?im not likely to desist from posting my pov just in case it irks someone. err you perhaps?

it is indeed only that - my pov
and people can and do challenge and assert their pov.as i would expect them too.

no i dont recall names of whom specifically would take issue with me,so cant particularly say oh well what's-her-name she always says why have children if you dont watch them and leave with strangers. undoubtedly there are other posters who have equally strident oppositional views to mine,and well good thing too.its the riposte and frisson that makes threads livelier.

Actually I like this thread. I don't think I say the same things ^all the time... I have been a SAHM for 7 years, I have three children under 6, last year I was so tired I could have lain down on the pavement to sleep.

SAHM is what I do I have a husband who has taken ONE day off this year. I find these discussions interesting because I am intelligent and hardworking and it is a struggle to be happy in my 'choice.'

With respect you have one 18 month old and are fortunate to have maternity leave and a job to return to. My life is very different and it's axrelief to talk about it.

My point was that, no, I don't have a default position.

This was one of those threads that didn't invite "default positions". Many do, that's true, esp on AIBU.

This seemed more reflective, which made it interesting. Now it has become the same old tired stuff.

From my current vantage point, I am mostly interested in why there has to be a "default position" on SAHM/WOHM debates as in reality I don't see those around me taking such stark or extreme views. I know that there will be many on MN who have ambivalent feelings about being a SAHM or a WOHM and this thread seemed to be ready to explore this... I'm interested in others' experiences and their reflections because I am at a stage in my life where all of this is up for grabs.

I don't take issue with anyone sharing their experience on a thread like this.. but it feels as though there are certain lines trotted out to inflame that make it hard for people who do have ambivalence about their own role to be honest about that, because when you have posters like you and Xenia ready to step in (almost triumphant) with a "ha! told you! it IS boring!" etc, it doesn't create an atmosphere that's conducive to openness.

That disappointed me on this thread. Join in, do.. but occasionally listen, maybe? Or say something new? You are clearly intelligent women, why not exercise this? What do you get out of rephrasing the same old stuff again and again? I can't see what's in it for you?

support and swopping and sharing tips is v good idea
maybe look at posting in mn local too

I feel this is a good time to add this:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/1224012-A-support-thread-for-the-SAHMs-who-are-looking-for-friendship-advice-and-motivation?msgid=25628470#25628470

I hope this can take off as a place for other SAHM to find support and friendship. I find sometimes it's the lonliest thing in the world (I am yet to talk to another adult today in RL)

If anyone wants to offload and scream and shout...please do.

It's high time we all had a place to say how shit it is and perk each other up.

[hopeful]

thats a discursive forum for you. generally speaking posters have a stsed position and will explore from that with mixture of opinion,anecdote and that will create a frsiion or response form someone not of same opinion.

so infact your assertion can equally be levelled at anyone. certainly isn't too long a wait til someone rocks up and says
sahm is a job
they'd never put kids in after school
...as you see most of these threads are oppositional. and there is always a default position that posters take,inc you i expect

Yes but you don't participate, as such. You lecture, from an immoveable position. Again and again and again. It really reduces the opportunity for honest and open discussion because it becomes polarised. And yes, you are very very entitled to keep trotting out the same old stuff in exactly the same old way using exactly the same old phrases, SM. I think it silences others though.

I don't have a "position" that I want others to agree with. You do. I haven't made up my mind, it's still in a state of flux. It's refreshing when you get different perspectives, when you participate in a discussion. People were sharing their experiences and reflections in an honest way on this thread, it was really interesting.

Lo and behold, within a few pages it's the old "SAHM is not a job", it doesn't attract a salary yada yada, everyone at home is just feeding ducks and singing songs. Stereotypical bullshit that shuts up anyone with a more interesting, nuanced tale to tell.

Yes SM, keep on, do. And as you are entitled to do that, so am I to say it is dull as the dishwater that you assume that everyone else is sloshing about in if they want a different opinion to yours.

think you'll find anyone can participate on any thread
thats kinda the way it works, teats the frission and riposte
this is not a come on and participate but only if you agree with 9til5.