to hate the, ''the baby could be adopted'' argument.

Of course choosing to adopt a baby must be an incredibly hard decision - I can't imagine the turmoil of doing that as I sit here with a 9 month old baby kicking inside me.

However, I can not imagine choosing to end that little one's life either.

I agreed before I was pg, and having been through two (normal, wanted) pgs I agree even more.

Aside from anything else, pg is a huge trauma for the body, and actually the third trimester is the worst. People seem to just dismiss this altogether when they argue for adoption rather than abortion.

And arguing that the baby might have some slim chance of surviving outside the womb is not terribly relevant - no one is offering an induction at 23 weeks with the baby then being put up for adoption!

I find it hard to believe that someone could be 24 weeks pregnant and not know. I don't think it is something you could do in secret at 24 weeks. I know of a young woman who had an abortion at 22 weeks and she has been traumatised. I am sure there are a few exceptional circumstances but in general I think it is just way too late. Having my self delivered a baby at this stage and seen that it is a baby.

My baby died in the womb at this stage and I delivered it. To think that someone would choose to do this is hard to accept. To think that they would be able to accept this over having a baby and keeping it or putting it up for adoption is unbelievable to me.

I am sure there are a few individual cases where there are extreme circumstances but I personally think it is too late.

I'm adopted and I really don't mean to be rude but you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You also seem to be basing a lot of your opinions on information you have received from a friend whose experience of adoption bears no relation to the current model of concurrency which is used in dealing with newborn adoptions.

I don't think it's as easy a solution as some people seem to think either.

My birth mother has been affected long term by the experience of giving away her baby.

I have been affected by the issues about feeling unwanted and disconnected.

My brother, adopted separately, has also been affected.

My adoptive parents may have been desperate to adopt but they didn't show affection so we didn't feel very connected to them either.

They seem to have problems of their own, maybe some of them caused by us not being like the son and daughter they had hoped for, or it not feeling how they expected it to feel (although this can be true of having your own children too).

Some bad things happened when we were children and we've struggled with our feelings, but would never having existed have been preferable? I don't know the answer to that, as I have a nice life now.

I agree with the OP. If I found myself with an unwanted pregnancy I would opt for abortion (and I would not find that an easy choice at all). There is no way I could carry a baby for 9 months, watching my daughter's get excited, and then hand that baby over for adoption only to spend the rest of our lives wondering what happened to the child and waiting for the letter/knock on the door from the child I gave up, no way. Not to mention I come from a Catholic Family (I don't share their beliefs) and my husband's father is Indian (VERY family orientated) that they would allow a child to be given up and us to go back to normal, no way on this earth would that happen.

So for me, an abortion, although an incredibly difficult decision, would be my only option as it could be done in complete secrecy to the rest of our family and the loss would be mine and my husband's alone to deal with.

There is a shortage of adoptive families in the UK. However, there is not a shortage of families willing/wanting to adopt babies, on the contrary there is (and has been for about 30 years) a shortage of babies available for adoption.

The reason some babies spend time in temporary foster care is usually because they have not yet been released for adoption. SS (quite rightly) do not want to place a baby with adoptive parents "permanently" and then have to remove him if the adoption papers are not signed. Some of these babies may have been removed at birth, because of very serious child-protection issues relating to earlier/older children. But there is due legal process to go through before they can be formally adopted.

Wrt your questions:
1)YANBU Putting your child up for adoption is very difficult and brings its own issues, not least carrying a pregnancy to full term.

2)YABU If you feel unwilling to bring up a child at that time, or feel financially unable to do so, I think it is fair to assume that a family who have longed for a child and have been to considerable lengths to adopt a child may well be in a better position to parent at that stage.

3. YABU. There is a shortage of babies available for adoption in this country at present.

I'm not seriously suggesting - and no-one would - that a high percentage of current abortions could/should be replaced by full-term births and adoptions. But in some cases it could be an option. I don't think your arguments are sound.

'I can see no reason for allowing an abortion, made only on the grounds of choice, at 24 weeks. I don't know why anyone would wait that long. It would be traumatic for mother and baby. Either adoption or more practical help with whatever issues are standing between them keeping their baby would be better.'

Some people don't discover they are pregnant until quite late - they have irregular periods, are using contraception that stops periods, are overweight and can't tell, etc. - others could be frightened and in denial, perhaps raped or very young.

And women are not incubators. They are human beings with the right to control their reproduction as they see fit.

in the post-20 weeks abortion argument i think that adoption is a completely red herring. a post-20 weeks abortion is likely to be for a disability or 'defect' which will either limit life or affect life in an ongoing way. these babies will almost definitely not have a happy ever after adoption stories.

wow - I know people who are already vetted but waiting for a baby. I was under the impression most children are passed from foster care to foster care as their parents haven't choosen to give them up for adoption, and it takes time for the legal requirements to be met before a child can be adopted without parental consent. (Which is why if SS take a newborn, that baby could be 18 months before they are able to be adopted)

It's completely different if a mother decides during pregancy to give her baby up for adoption.

That said, I do believe in the right to abort, tempered with more information (and more efficient services) for adoption.

There are hundreds of people who would like to adopt a new baby.

I know six people who have adopted. I think it is totally wrong to say not many families want to adopt because they can have their own

I can see no reason for allowing an abortion, made only on the grounds of choice, at 24 weeks. I don't know why anyone would wait that long. It would be traumatic for mother and baby. Either adoption or more practical help with whatever issues are standing between them keeping their baby would be better.

YANBU.

I am adopted, and I've also had an abortion.

I've said on here before, that no way could I have carried on with my life if I'd had the baby adopted.
It's naive to think all my neighbours, and family and then 5yr old would have thought I was doing a wonderful thing and just let me go back to my life after, even if I could have, and what about all those people I don't 'know', but see on a regular basis, when they congratulate me on my pregnancy, or ask DD if she's hoping for a brother or sister.
I live in a small town and the whispering would have never gone away. My family aren't very supportive either.

And what about in 18 years when the child I didn't want turns up and I have to tell them I don't want them all over again, breaking their heart and going through the nightmare all over again?

An abortion can be kept secret.

As for always being adopted by a wonderful family. Yeah right.
My Mum never told me she loved me, never cuddled me just for the sake of it, and never seemed interested after the age of about 10.
I once asked her why she adopted when she couldn't have a second child, as being a parent never seemed high up on her list of priorities.

Really? I know quite a few adopted people and adopted children and there is no passing from pillar to post going on. Yes there is a lot of vetting but that will have already taken place by the time a baby becomes 'available'. I know several couples that are waiting and there are no newborns. I also know another couple of families who have taken on 3 and 4 children all from the same families, all with behavioural issues, a couple of the children with special needs and they are doing a fantastic job with them.

I think that, accepting that what I have said above is anecdotal and doesn't really prove anything, the same could be said for your post. You paint a very bleak picture that is not my experience.

I agree with you entirely.