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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jane Garvey interviews a parent of a transgender child & Aimee Challener on Woman's Hour.

28 replies

R0wantrees · 30/07/2018 10:37

On now

"What is it like to parent a child experiencing gender dysphoria? How does that child experience wanting to be recognised as a different gender from a young age? Deni Parkes, mother of 24 year old, Kye, a trans man, and Aimee Challenor, a 20 year old trans woman speak to Jane."
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bcddpp

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R0wantrees · 30/07/2018 10:56

Followed by interesting drama:

Episode 1
15 Minute Drama, Just a Girl Episode 1 of 5

In this fourth series of Just A Girl, trans teenager Amy has just finished her GCSEs and is waiting for her results. She's been taking hormone blockers since she was 11 and is now anxious to start on the next phase of transitioning.

She's always been certain of her gender identity - it's other people who are the problem. Over the course of a week away in Manchester, she falls in love, experiences her first kiss, meets the inspirational Kate O'Donnell, deals with challenging counter-views on trans-gender politics and learns that being trans is just part of her life - not all of it.

Episode 1: Teenagers Amy and Ryley are falling for each other. How will Amy tell him she's trans? And when should she tell him? Will he still like her? She's going to have to find out. Amy, now 16, and her grandad Ted arrive in Manchester. Ted has a funeral to attend and Amy needs some time out from her mum who wants her to wait before starting cross sex hormones. The last thing Amy needs is to meet a boy she really likes."

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bcg8bm

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AnchorMum · 30/07/2018 11:09

I was impressed by Deni, Kye's mother. Kye's story sounds a very moving one, and Deni seems to be someone who has looked at things in the round and done what she felt was best for her child given the circumstances.

I really struggle with Aimee's presentation: describing it repeatedly as "coming out", "coming out of the closet", as though it is another variant of LGB sexual preference.

I also found Aimee's report of her parents' reaction really odd: an immediate response of 'if you want to transition we'll support you.'

This was at aged 16. Was there really no discussion of all the huge consequences of transitioning? The lifelong drugs, the sterility, the potential surgery?

Aimee said: I was lucky because my parents were supportive and loving, as were my siblings.

So, any parent/family member that do not immediately accept/acquiesce are unloving and unsupportive?

I know nothing about Aimee's circumstances- perhaps her parents saw this coming and weren't surprised. But I'm appalled that Jane Garvey's interview did not even mention that many parents do have concerns - which is a totally legitimate and rational thing to have.

And it should have been made clear that being trans and transitioning is not the same as coming out as gay.

I don't want to be critical of any trans person's individual testimony and experience, or that of their families - but this interview made it sound so simple, so straightforward, just a matter of all us being kind and loving and supportive to the person suffering these identity feelings.

As a parent struggling to understand my own young adult child's rapid onset gender dysphoria, I find this no- questions-asked narrative deeply worrying.

nauticant · 30/07/2018 11:17

I caught a bit of Just a Girl. I loathe that drama with it's sparkly message that if a boy says they're a girl then they're a girl and everyone must comply. The only possible problem that can arise is transphobic attitudes from bigots, without that everything would be super wonderful.

So, today's episode. Amy (the transgirl) is getting involved with a boy who is in the dark about Amy being trans. Amy is in no hurry to set him straight (ha!). This makes my flesh crawl.

I recall hearing an episode of a previous series where a male relative was going on about being violent to people who wouldn't accept that the boy was not a girl. I can't think of any other drama on Radio 4 where possible violence would be presented so sympathetically.

Is my recollection correct that in order to make this propaganda convincing, the actor who plays the boy who claims to be a girl is actually a girl?

ToeToToe · 30/07/2018 11:23

So, today's episode. Amy (the transgirl) is getting involved with a boy who is in the dark about Amy being trans. Amy is in no hurry to set him straight (ha!). This makes my flesh crawl.

Er, yes. That would be problematic in a real life scenario. My experience of straight teenage boys is that they wouldn't be too ecstatic finding a penis down there.

But what do I know? Obviously us old bigotty bigots are just soooo obsessed with genitals. Confused

JackyHolyoake · 30/07/2018 11:24

AnchorMum Aimee Challenor is a Green Party politician and a trans activist. There is plenty of information about Challenor via Google. Smile

AnchorMum · 30/07/2018 11:26

Thank you Jackie.

R0wantrees · 30/07/2018 12:05

AnchorMum There's quite a lot on FWR too about Aimee Challoner.

Aimee is also often interviewed on BBC and Pink News and has written a number of opinion pieces for the Independent.

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AnchorMum · 30/07/2018 12:25

Did Jane Garvey mention Aimee Challoner's professional involvement? Something I missed if she did.

In the context of Aimee's involvement, it certainly is an odd interview choice given the context of the discussion.

I also noted Aimee saying that the only family dissenting voices came from her paternal grandparents, who were coming from 'a place of ignorance.'

R0wantrees · 30/07/2018 14:25

AnchorMum No she didn't and it was strange. I listen to Woman's Hour most days and the interviews in this segment were both a little unusual.

It reminded me of the Sky interview with Jess Bradley (NUS TRans officer and founder of Action for TRans Health)

I wondered if perhaps some TRAs insist that they speak as individuals or put restrictions around what journalists may mention.

Its curious & could be interesting.

recent threads re Jess Bradley:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3311038-Sky-News-9-30am-today-re-GRA

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3320513-Jess-Bradley-first-transgender-student-officer-suspended-after-flashing-photos

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jgrobinson · 30/07/2018 14:52

Just in case you don't know, "Just a Girl" was heavily influenced by Susie Green and Mermaids.
twitter.com/MarkDaviesMark/status/643799135800438788

jgrobinson · 30/07/2018 15:02

This is the writer (or perhaps stenographer?), Mark Davies Markham:
"@PinkNews brilliant well done all deservedly so Susie Green does invaluable work @BBCWomansHour #JustAGirl"
twitter.com/MarkDaviesMark/status/791389229905502208

Ekphrasis · 30/07/2018 15:15

I only managed to catch bits of both the prog and the serial but it suddenly sent a cold chill down my spine. I do fully a knowledge that free speech, especially in 'art' is necessary, but I know from my younger days I used to just accept the status quo that the news and bbc peddled me.

The chill came from the realisation that the underlying messages communicated in the play were that we, the audience, were being taught the correct way to think.

Because if the opposing views (I'm mainly thinking if the line the bits Mum says about "do you think men can be women just because they say so?" - intonation: yes) were placed in a play I'm really not sure they'd currently be broadcast.

But I may need to listen to it again more closely.

I felt the first interview was sensitive and interesting. I really felt for Kai.

AnchorMum · 30/07/2018 15:54

I listen to Woman's Hour most days and the interviews in this segment were both a little unusual.
*
It reminded me of the Sky interview with Jess Bradley (NUS TRans officer and founder of Action for TRAns Health)*

I wondered if perhaps some TRAs insist that they speak as individuals or put restrictions around what journalists may mention.

Yes - these interviews certainly lacked the energy and rigour of Garvey's Love Island discussion at the top of the programme.

As a journalist, you are trained to put both sides of the argument forward - even if it needs to be done sensitively. There was a little of this with Kai's Mum - especially the bit when she talked about grieving for the loss of her daughter. But Aimee seemed to be given a free ride.

Not like Jane Garvey's usual style at all.

DilianaDilemma · 30/07/2018 16:05

I have the strangest question re. the Just a Girl' storyline - and I really, really don't mean to be goady or inappropriate (haven't seen the show):

So, if the protagonist has been on blockers from age 11 and is now 16 and dating, isn't that kind of ... problematic (for the lack of a better word).

Puberty does a lot more than simply make pubes sprout. Wouldn't that character be quite immature in terms of brain development, too? Not to mention that they'd basically be in a child's body. Is it actually appropriate for them to be dating?

Very happy to stand corrected, but it feels instinctively wrong. Can anyone enlighten me?

BoreOfWhabylon · 30/07/2018 16:33

I didn't listen to this but perhaps those who did could let WH and the Beeb know what they thought?

Viago · 30/07/2018 16:39

^ yes do this. I didn't listen to this last time but I remember hearing complaints about it on either Feedback/Points of View.

Angryresister · 30/07/2018 16:46

Just written in , again. They know there are GC voices but it does seem the producers are hell bent on giving only one side of the story. I can only get the podcasts so didn't hear the story thank god. Sounds as though the BBC with its heavily overstaffed by Trans people is thoroughly biased. The blithe acceptance of FGM involving removal of heathy tissue and lifelong medication, on the NHS was particularly shocking.

nauticant · 30/07/2018 16:54

If you're so minded BoreOfWhabylon, it'll be rebroadcast at 19.45 this evening. But it could give you the rage so you might want to skip it if you're looking to be mellow this evening.

BoreOfWhabylon · 30/07/2018 17:00

I caught a bit of the last series nauticant. Can't face any more.

nauticant · 30/07/2018 17:19

I don't blame you. The one-sided and wholly uncritical cheerleading of children being sterilised on the way to surgery which could be profoundly and bitterly regretted is sickening.

R0wantrees · 30/07/2018 18:16

Woman's Hour had a call out at the beginning of the program for listeners to contact the show and suggest topics. Its a yearly feature I think.

They have also asked for listeners' experiences and opinions about sex and gender for an extended series of discussions in the autumn.

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AngryAttackKittens · 30/07/2018 18:20

I'm with Diliana, the kids I've seen who've been put on Lupron etc have seemed remarkably immature for their age and won't have any/much interest in sex, so one who's 16 dating an 18 year doesn't sound appropriate at all.

Melamin · 30/07/2018 18:47

Just a girl is pure propaganda. It sounds like propaganda. It had me ConfusedHmm long before I saw anything on here.

It is rubbish listening too.

placemats · 30/07/2018 19:00

I think it's time to take the T out of LGB.

Trans is totally separate from sexual preferences.

And Amiee is, in my professional opinion, breaking all the safeguarding issues. But hush now, keep it a secret.

placemats · 30/07/2018 19:03

Just call it trans woman hour. And let that agenda take over.

Women's hour really is just stating the obvious and has long outlived its shelf life.

Flogging a dead
mare
sow
heifer
cow
etc

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