women's issues, always remember men are victims too

[DecaffCoffeeAndRollupsPlease]

Just frustrated with reading /hearing that men are victims too. Some people seem to only allow permission for issues like advice for 'women suffering from domestic violence' to be discussed if a prominent statement that men are also victims of domestic violence is made. It's infuriating, not because it's not true but because it's so pervasive - you can't write a blog giving specific advice for women in dv relationships without someone commenting, seemingly every time, that men are victims too. Also happens in discussions about rape.

Anyone else find this a common occurrence, I don't know the stats but the fact that men are victims too seems to occur more frequently in the discussions than the instances of men actually being the victim of the scenario? Does it irritate you?


Do you have a stock resort to help bring the conversation back to women without denying or disregarding that yes, bad things happen to men too?

[grimbletart]

Also happens in discussions of FGM.

The quickest answer is to acknowledge that men are victims too and say, but this debate is about women.

[BreakingDad77]

The problem is a lot of them have very negative views of women from the get go, will be the same posters "why did she go home with him", "all women cry rape on rich people/footballers it happens all the time", "men have to protect themselves(applying high status to themselves)"

Using broken statistics or evens stats from other countries, when we have pretty good studies in the UK.

Some of the Uni studies of graduate assault are pretty bewildering, and again why would women need to over report it.

Its mad as its pretty common knowledge in the news how low rape convictions are so where this paranoia comes from who knows.

[AuntieStella]

No, it doesn't irritate me.

I want good services for everyone, regardless of their sex.

If services are bad, perhaps because a predominantly women's issue is not being dealt with properly, that needs action. But so does the exclusion of victims from services based on their sex.

[femfortheday]

The provision of services isn't the issue, and even if it was it shouldn't necessarily be women's work to fix services for men, it's the constant derailment. It's a way of telling women to STFU. Whataboutery.

[BathtimeFunkster]

It's not just that they happen to men, it's that they are much much worse when they happen to men because poor men are such helpless victims and never complain and because they are stoic and it's so much harder for them to report than women who never shut the fuck up whining.

[maybebabybee]

Yes it drives me mad, particularly within the context of domestic violence. Yes, some men are victims too but the majority of victims are women.

When you work in dv, you see it every day.

[grimbletart]

I want help for victims of either sex, but if e.g. DV is so bad for men why haven't they done something about it? Women got off our arses, set up refuges and support groups etc. What's to stop men doing it? Why are we expected to do bloody everything for everyone as well as writing all the Christmas cards?

When I used to work for a medical research charity years ago and take phone calls from the public I used to get a lot of calls from men bemoaning the fact that there were support groups for breast cancer but not for prostate cancer (there are now) and why was that, wasn't fair, no one cares about men etc. When I asked why they didn't start one, there was always this long silence. The answer was, of course, that no men had got off their arses and started one (they have now - phew).

[0phelia]

This BBC documentary is so awful. So horrific and so important.
For anyone to say "Yeah, stop your moaning men are victims too" totally minimises and makes a mockery of the real and terrifying problem of male violence.

I read somewhere (no link sorry JGI) that in cases of domestic abuse, male numbers and female numbers are equal in terms if victim/perpetrator. But in cases of actual violence ABH, GBH and death the numbers of female victims greatly outweigh the numbers of male victims.

So you could say: Male victims of abuse are equal to female victims of abuse, but in cases leading to violence and death, female victims outweigh male victims to a staggering degree.

[HelenaDove]

Im watching the prog on BBC2 and following the hashtag on Twitter and predictably a few "what about the menz" tweets have popped up.

[maybebabybee]

In tears watching this documentary. So so awful.

[VestalVirgin]

Some people seem to think that feminism is a human rights activism by women.
The idea that it could be FOR women doesn't even seem to enter their minds.

I mean, really, those men have the chuzpe to demand that women pay for and organise a fight against men's problems - not only male violence against women, where feminists are already busy picking up the victims and donating work and money to help them, but problems men create for other men.

It is like they never grew up and expect that mum takes care of everything.

[AyeAmarok]

Yes, it bothers me.

It bothers me because there seems to be an expectation that it's not only women's job to provide refuges/support for (say) women who suffer domestic violence , it's also women's job to provide that for male domestic violence victims.

[AyeAmarok]

Well it looks like I've cross-posted with everyone!

[TheDowagerCuntess]

If services are bad, perhaps because a predominantly women's issue is not being dealt with properly, that needs action. But so does the exclusion of victims from services based on their sex.

That these services exist is ONLY because women got off their arse and did something about an overwhelming problem.

If men are feeling excluded, they're absokue welcome to get off their arses, too.

Why aren't they? [

[TheDowagerCuntess]

Typos galore - sorry.

[StealthPolarBear]

In fairness I read that bbc article as showing the difference in stats - showing that men are less likely to suffer domestic abuse than women .
However, in principle I agree. Domestic abuse is an issue that primarily affects women (as the victims). Giving me equal footing on this issue is highly misleading

[StealthPolarBear]

Maybe next movember we should point out that women get cancer too.

[BathtimeFunkster]

Why aren't they?

Because they're busy running the world and making most of the money.

Looking after people (and by people, we mean men, of course) is women's work.

[StealthPolarBear]

Men equal footing.
I'm pleased to say I need no footing.

[AyeAmarok]

Agree Dowager

And what especially annoys me is that lot easier for men to drive change in society than it is for women, as men still (on the whole) have more power, money, more of a voice and more political representation in society than women do.

So if men really were concerned about these things, they could change them.

[BertieBotts]

Oh so this is the article my friend was banging on about on FB. Will just copy and paste my comment there. Do not have energy for this.

It's not that the 13 (or 19) male victims don't matter, of course, OF COURSE they matter just as much as female victims. But domestic violence is an EXTREMELY gendered issue, and it matters because it affects both perception and reality. Women's refuges are losing funding drastically, many have had to close. Outreach services which support women outside of the refuges are closing. Others (refuge and outreach) are being threatened because they don't take in male victims - these refuges which were set up and fought tooth and nail, by women, for women, in a time where relationship violence was seen as inevitable, and women didn't have as much political power as they have today. There are male refuges, and they stand empty, save for a few residents - of course nobody is arguing that they are unnecessary, but to devote more space to men (who typically have very different needs, and entirely different patterns of response to abusive relationships) and take it away from women while women are being turned away because there aren't enough spaces.... I can't. It is a tragedy and a failing on a massive scale, and that is why the focus on women.

I also felt that article was the same as what SPB is saying, TBH.

Also I did not include this because it was relating only to the comment made, but this makes for interesting reading. In particular:

All but one of the female partner/ex-partner homicide victims were killed by a male suspect, whereas among men, around a third of partner/ex-partner homicide were killed by a male suspect. However, the category of partner/ex partner homicide includes homicides committed by the victim’s lover’s spouse or emotional rival (see definition above) and this was the case in the majority (14 out of 19) of these instances.

(Definition above: An emotional rival is defined as those instances where two persons come to know or meet each other through their association or knowledge of a third person, and where their emotional or sexual interest in this third person brings them into direct conflict with each other.)

Wording is confusing, but basically it means 14 out of 19, or 75% (not really a large enough sample to be consistent, but fuck, 75%) were not cases of DV at all, but just somebody who is vaguely related to the victim's partner.

[OneFlewOverTheDodosNest]

So that's a serious misquote of statistics then, isn't it? A purposeful misquote to make it look as though women are (seriously if not equally) violent towards male partners when it's just not true.

[FlorisApple]

The Guardian comments are the absolute fucking worst for this. Every single article about women's issues (or ostensible women's issues) is barraged with comments that are effectively: don;t forget men, men suffer too/worse/more often etc. etc. Just this morning I read this article: http://gu.com/p/4f65e?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other and the comments are ridiculous. I know I should just stop reading them, but I can't help myself, and it makes my blood boil!

[MotherofFlagons]

A couple of years ago, I saw men on a male dominated forum complaining that the race for life was sexist because it focused on breast cancer, therefore they would refuse to donate for women they knew doing it. Several people pointed out that there was also a race for prostate cancer, but this was totally ignored because they were hung up on the fact there was a thing for women and it was all so unfair on the poor men.

It makes me a bit cross too. Those with the most privilege shout the loudest when they think it's being eroded.