Lily Allen - 'Men should be men'

[Lottapianos]

www.standard.co.uk/showbiz/lily-allen-men-should-be-men-and-not-spend-ages-in-front-of-the-mirror-9170174.html

I try with Lily Allen, I really do. She has a lovely voice. Her song 'The Fear' is great. 'Hard Out Here' had a pretty feminist message. But then she comes out with utter airhead nonsense like this:

'Im not into men who are vain or even wearing aftershave. It gives me shivers. Men should be men. Go out, earn some money, come back and look after my children.'

Jesus, are we really still on this???! What 'real' men do and what 'real' women do? Man as breadwinner? Does she not earn any money then? Is that her 'man's' job? FFS

I guess I'm extra disappointed because at times she has got it right and written songs about young women's insecurity and the ridiculous body and beauty standards we are expected to conform to and then she comes out with old dinosaur nonsense like this. I'm both angry and disappointed

[benid]

[NiceTabard]

She is after someone to earn money and look after the children!

So not entirely in line with traditional roles... More like a top find for someone who's a bit lazy

[ArtetasSwollenAnkle]

I'm not into men who are vain or even wearing aftershave. It gives me shivers. Men should be men. Go out, earn some money, come back and look after my children.'

That quote in itself is no bad thing though, depending on how you interpret it;

1. don't be vain and preening, which are not admirable qualities,
   
2. have a job - contribute to the family and society economically,
   
3. do you share of bringing up the kids, i.e. don't assume that because you work, you can abdicate all the cleaning/wiping arses/helping with homework to your partner.
   

If you view it this way, she seems to be talking sense.

[BriarRainbowshimmer]

"Men should be men" sounds really stupid because men don't magically transform into women/asexual beings if they pay attention to how they look and wear aftershave.

I've never heard "women should be women and not spend ages in front of the mirror, not be vain and not wear perfume"

[NiceTabard]

Men whine on about how long women spend getting ready all the time.

A top move of the patriarchy - I'm going to put your value on what you look like, and promote time consuming expensive beauty standards, and require you to try to meet them, then I am going to mock you for the time you "waste" on it.

Lose/lose innit.

[Trills]

I imagine that she probably talked about her personal preference for men who are not "into grooming" (which is fine) and it got skewed because there was no attention-grabbing headline.

[NiceTabard]

Also agree with trills.

[BriarRainbowshimmer]

I think so too. Just pointing out how much "men should be men" bothers me. It reminds me of things like "when men were men and women were women" and "boys will be boys"

Illogical sentences if you don't think about gender roles, yes boys are boys (until they grow up)

[Scarletohello]

Hmm was just reading today that Lily Allen posts about her mothering dilemmas on MN. Wonder if she will come on this thread to defend herself...?

[NiceTabard]

YY men should be men is bleurgh.

I just never entirely trust the press when quoting from stars.

I also don't think that I could get by with lots of stuff I said being recorded without dropping the occasional clanger.

I do like Lily Allen though so that helps with this particular one.

[benid]

yes trills i think you've nailed it

[NigellasDealer]

sounds fine to me - who would want some narcissist body beautiful type as a partner? not me!

and who would want a man who wants to live off you? not me!! (LA would be a magnet for the cocklodger type wouldn't she? so even more of a point for her).

then she says she wants a man to be 'hands on' with the children! fair enuff!!

(I cannot stand her singing voice but quite fancy her dad)

[BeCool]

I used to like LA - but I think she has now confirmed her status as an out & out idiot, who knows nothing about equality or feminism:

Article in Independent

Apparently a woman's worst enemy is a skinny woman.
"It’s much the same [as it used to be]. But I don’t think men are the enemy. I think women are the enemy.

“I know that when I’m sitting in a restaurant and a really beautiful woman walks in, who’s skinny, I instinctively think, ‘Oh, she’s really skinny and beautiful and I’m really fat and ugly.’ Every man I speak to always says they find that kind of woman gross, and they prefer a bit more meat on their ladies."

Good grief!

[BeCool]

“Feminism. I hate that word because it shouldn’t even be a thing anymore,” she told Shortlist in an interview to run alongside her guest edited ‘How To Be A Man’ issue of the magazine.

“We’re all equal, everyone is equal. Why is there even a conversation about feminism? What’s the man version of feminism? There isn’t even a word for it. Menanism. Male-ism. It doesn’t exist.”

[Callani]

When I see a ridiculous sentence like "Men should be men" I like to come up with ways to end it that don't make me want to boak.

Today I've got:
"Men should be men in that they should be biologically male - unless they want to be women and that's fine too."

[ithaka]

That bit hating on 'skinny' women is one of many reasons I dislike Lilly Allen, apart from her droning nasal voice, mock estuary accent and lack of discernible talent.

However, as I expect her to say clueless things, I'm not really bothered.

[Lottapianos]

NigellasDealer, I use make up and perfume and always have painted nails and am interested in clothes - I don't think any of that makes me narcissistic! I think its totally fine not to be interested in those things too. What I object to is LA saying that men should never be interested in their appearance because there's something unmanly about it. Well balls to that quite frankly!
BeCool, those quotes about feminism are grim and again, very disappointing

[NigellasDealer]

exactly ithaka , when her piping little mockney voice comes on the radio the kids know to change station without me having to say anything!

she went to Bedales ffs! her mother is a film producer! what talent did it take to sing 'fuck you fuck you fuck you very very much?'

why is what she is twittering on about so interesting?

personally i would not mind shagging her dad or step-dad but other than that she is dull dull dull.

[NigellasDealer]

lottapianos are you a man?

[Lottapianos]

NigellasDealer, I use make up and perfume and always have painted nails and am interested in clothes - I don't think any of that makes me narcissistic! I think its totally fine not to be interested in those things too. What I object to is LA saying that men should never be interested in their appearance because there's something unmanly about it. Well balls to that quite frankly!
BeCool, those quotes about feminism are grim and again, very disappointing

[Lottapianos]

No I'm a woman

[NigellasDealer]

well fine then crumbs i thought you were a man for a minute! not sexy!

[NigellasDealer]

i mean obvs you don't want a man with stinky pits or a dirty face but if he was tweezing and plucking and moisturising i for one would find it weird.

[Lottapianos]

I do however have a male friend who is no stranger to nail varnish and owns quite a stash of make up. Totally fine to say that's not your idea of sexy, but not at all fine to say that makes him less of a man, which LA no doubt would