Dh cannot see his spending is wrong - part rant needed, part help

[Genericwobbler]

NC'd because I don't want this attached to my usual name. But CANCEL THE CHEQUE! Purple house. Cockwomble etc. I'm sorry this is super long.

Trying not to drip feed. I work ft and dh is sahp after taking redundancy a few years back. I was pt but could go ft so that was a mutual decision that he would take over the dc school runs.

Recently I had a brilliant promotion, very stressful at times but I love my job. I'm happy as I never thought we would be in a position to earn enough to receive no benefits, but it's basically just that any benefit we had previously (housing benefit, child tax cred, working tax cred) is just made up now by my wages and a couple of hundred extra a month. So we're not amazingly better off, but could be comfortable.

Normally I used to get paid, work out what bills were coming out of who's account and make sure each of us had enough in there to cover them, then split what was left equally, with a bit extra in mine as I'd do the shopping at the weekends. The split money wasn't to spend as we pleased as such, more that if one of us was out and realised we needed something, we'd be able to get it. Sometimes he'd run out and I'd have to transfer more to him and he'd say I was "drip feeding him" which pissed me off because he has the online banking codes to both accounts but NEVER logs on, he's probably even lost them. It makes me feel like the overlord or something, which is so far from it. And I don't give a shit about money, so long as we have what we need.

Well the last couple of months have been hard. We've had extra bills to pay, and will do for probably about a year, plus a mix up with my new pension amount starting means we're about 116 a month down there as well. Last month I had to borrow £30 from my wonderful dm, so I decided this month we should try something new. So he could see his spending is what's leaving us short. Because it is. Honestly, I feel like I'd be rather well off without him right now, which isn't nice.

I suggested he start looking for a job again as he's said he wants to go back to work for ages now, and I even found his cv on the computer for him! A friend of his sent him some link about a job as well, but I don't think he even looked at it despite him telling me about it. He thought I was bu because "I never tried to make you get a job when you weren't working and I was". Well, the dc were smaller then but as soon as I found something part time that worked around school times I took it, because I wanted to, so it's completely different! Plus, we NEED the money now, due to his spending.

So I worked out we would have £110 a week after bills and money for shopping. So I took it out and put it in envelopes so we could see in cash what we had and every time it would be a physical reminder of how much was there. Well it's flopped, greatly. He was all for it. But it's flopped. What he spends money on is seeing his friends, mostly on one night a week crazily, since becoming short of money he's thought nothing of going out more, not less. Since payday 12 days ago he's spent £18 on a gift (alcohol) and card for friend's birthday, £20 to celebrate with another as he was moving away, £20 as a "reward" to himself after some gardening, £10 on his "usual" day out because I said we had no money for it, £40 on another friend's birthday... then today. He wanted to spend some money getting lunch supplies for dc but didn't see why it should come out of our week money (it should have) so I relented, whatever, take it out of the bank. I didn't take child benefit into account when budgeting so we'd have a "buffer".

He took out 20, spent half, so this evening we had 26 from our week money and 10 from the bank. He got an offer of a free evening out and wanted to go, so I was waiting for him to start about money, dreading it really. So he asks if I need one pound, can he take it to get a can if drink while he walks. That makes me feel shitty, so I say why don't you just take the tenner because you're making me feel like an arsehole, asking if I mind if you take a fucking pound!

So he says oh, well why don't I just take the money for my regular night out instead and do it tonight?

I gave up. I should've said no but instead I just didn't really say anything, and he was so set on it he didn't seem to notice. So he took £25...of the £35. How can he not see that's just wrong? Or why doesn't he care? I don't go out myself, don't spend much money on myself at all (and nothing last month or this month so far). He actually asked me if I might "borrow" sone money from work. I'm ashamed to say I almost considered it but I'm not risking my job because he's a twat. He doesn't HAVE to get a job, only if he wants to continue spending like this, all our bills are paid, anything he earned would be extra, or savings...god I'd love to have savings. He's always going on about his mates have this money or that money, they're going on holiday - well they've got jobs or gfs they claim not to live with so have extra benefits or live with parents and no rent!

Hese always been unreliable with money but it's gotten worse. On the days we were really skint last month I honestly just wondered why the fuck I bother.

Why the fuck do I bother?

[Increasinglymiddleaged]

I think money matters to him and he likes to spend more. I think the issue is he needs to get a job though rather than him spending really outrageously. Living on one income is tough I think for most people.

[Genericwobbler]

I do think it's partly that, but that I think is because he literally has no family to speak to, only some friends he's known for years, which is who he spends his time with as he sees them as family. But rather than just spend time like.most people would visit parents or siblings, it always come to needing to spend money to do it.

[AddToBasket]

He's not a massive spender, he's just selfish.

He does need to get a job though because you have different attitudes to money. Which is fine if you are able to have 'me' pots and 'family' pots but at the moment you aren't. Really, you need all your income to be team income because their isn't lots spare.

You are on a hiding to nothing wanting him to change his spending. Much better that he gets a job and there's a bit of slack for him to spend as he likes. It's easy to think that the one with the tighter purse strings is the more 'right' one but it is all just choices.

[AddToBasket]

He's not a massive spender, he's just selfish.

He does need to get a job though because you have different attitudes to money. Which is fine if you are able to have 'me' pots and 'family' pots but at the moment you aren't. Really, you need all your income to be team income because their isn't lots spare.

You are on a hiding to nothing wanting him to change his spending. Much better that he gets a job and there's a bit of slack for him to spend as he likes. It's easy to think that the one with the tighter purse strings is the more 'right' one but it is all just choices.

[Increasinglymiddleaged]

But the amount he's spending to many people really isn't a lot. £55 per week each to spend - I would have real difficulty coping with that tbh. I don't mean to sound spoilt but life is more fun if you don't have money as a constant barrier to doing what you want.

And remember with no benefits he basically keeps every penny up to the personal allowance.

[AntiGrinch]

It isn't up to us to say whether he would be better off with a job or not - he has already said he doesn't want one.

OP what happens when you talk to him about this "big picture"? not the "can I have money to go out, now" conversation but "this is our financial situation, here are the envelopes" conversation. How did that go?

[Genericwobbler]

On all seriousness, I started the dc on packed lunches a few weeks ago to try and save money (£20 a week). He knew this and was all for it (as I was making them before I went to work), I've changed our gas and electric supplier to save £10 a month, I've cancelled bits of our tv/internet to save money. He knows all of that, and still thinks his spending is ok. Hes asked me to steal from my work to fund his night out.

It's not a competition, but really I can't undertand the comment about it being eady to think the one with the tighter purse strings is the more right one. I do really believe I am actually the right one!

[AntiGrinch]

"I do really believe I am actually the right one!"
Yes, so do I. I didn't get that comment, either - that is a kind of open minded relativism that only applies to genuinely disposable income.

Same with "not big amounts" - they are when you are left short. Spending £18 on a mate's birthday isn't bizarre overspending when everything else is covered; when it isn't, it's selfish and stupid.

"Hes asked me to steal from my work to fund his night out. "

this is bonkers. And I am kind of worried that you sort of considered it.
He seems to have a kind of hold over you.... guilting you out over the £1 for instance. Do you feel that his having a good time is more important than you being remotely comfortable?

[MycatsaPirate]

Sorry but you need to taken complete control of all finances. Don't leave money in an account he can access or cash lying about in the house unless you want to have to scramble round for change for the kids lunches or not pay a bill.

What is he actually doing all day? Is he contributing in any way at all?

I would be seriously tempted to just throw him out. You are meant to be a team. He should be looking at ways to help cut back and save money so that you can actually start having some savings and then both afford a night out or two.

It's life. If you are going to live on one income then you need to cut your cloth to cover that. Sounds like he expects you to fund everything while making no effort at all and spending your wages on nights out. Fuck that.

[Genericwobbler]

increasingly I get what you're saying, it's not even each to spend though, itsr for extra bread or milk or god forbid, taking the kids out for easter (hasn't happened), the extra emergencies that crop up.

Anti he thought it was a good idea but I suppose now he probably just thought he'd go along with it and it wouldn't actually matter.

Yes, I do feel like his having a good time seems more important to be honest. It's like, at whatever cost.

[Hassled]

Bloody hell - he really is taking the piss. And unless he's exceptionally stupid, he knows he's taking the piss - there's no way he can really think his behaviour is OK. He just doesn't care. I don't actually know what you can do though - you're in a bloody hard position.

[Chamomiletea]

I have no advice only to say that we are in a similar position - except I'm the SAHP and DP spends frivolously. So I'm getting a job!

[Chamomiletea]

And to those who say it's a minimal amount - that isn't the point I got fish n chips this week and thus went over budget. It's actually really really stressful to be worried about "minimal" amounts and to remind us of how poor we are doesn't really help.

[JennyHolzersGhost]

Sit down and start from scratch. Write a weekly budget based on what you've got coming in. Include longer term costs pro rata (holidays, bills, Christmas).
Work out the excess.
Split it into: savings (50%?); discretionary spend (kids' pocket money; then the remainder equally between you and him).
That's the lot. Cut off all bank cards etc. Take that much out in cash each week and that's it.
If he has a problem with that then you've got a wider problem.

[picklemepopcorn]

Split the spare cash three ways. One goes in a savings account, for holidays or emergencies. You have one part each. When it's gone, it's gone. He isn't pulling his weight, but that would be scrupulously fair so he can't complain. He actually needs to learn to manage money by running out and having to miss out on stuff. But it's not fair for him to do that at your expense so he needs to be limited. He'll soon see the attraction of earning.

[user1490817136]

I had a partner with these kind of spending habits years ago OP. He would just take from the joint account without paying any attention to our family budget. I started cutting corners to cover for his spending. Bloody nightmare and no way to live.

We split 10 years ago , I'm still paying off the joint loan I stupidly agreed to 'to get us back to zero' after his spending got completely out of control. That joint loan will be one of my DDs for the next three years OP.

I'm not saying your husband is this bad but I'd like to warn you of how bad things can be if they are allowed to go on.

[AntiGrinch]

How old are the dcs?

[BunnyChickChocolateEgg]

He's being a pain, but I think some people really don't 'get' money. They don't understand that there's a direct relationship between what there is available, and what you spend. It doesn't excuse his behaviour, but it may help with not throttling him!

When we were hard up, and there was a risk one of us might lose their job, my exH suggested we use our savings to have the kitchen done, because this might be the last time we had that much money for a while..I remember it because it wasn't selfish, he didn't care about the kitchen, but knew I did (it was really awful!). He didn't think at all that we should keep the money to help if things got really hard, to stop us ending up actually in debt. He truly thought it was a good time to spend it all. He was not a stupid person in general though at all...some people just seem to see money as a random thing that appears and disappears in an unpredictable way.

[AntiGrinch]

Bunny, your post just gave me a lightbulb moment. If you think of money as something that inevitably disappears, like.... daylight, or time, and can't be saved... then of course it makes sense to spend it, even at random, rather than not at all, while it is there (because in a minute it won't be)

I suddenly understand a bit better why I haven't been able to explain to some people that: it isn't there now because you spent it. It otherwise.... still would be

[nocutsnobuttsnococonuts]

Its so hard. My dp is terrible with money, we have individual bank accounts. All the bills come out of one of mine - we each contribute towards and have money each to spend, mine is merged with kids as I do mot of the entertaining! Food/household stuff budget is seperate but I'm in charge otherwise do would buy random expensive crap as its easier. It works for us as I can save mine for holidays and he can buy scratch cards and energy drinks without either judging.

Maybe he's bored at home and should find a job, I spent more as a sahp due to boredom and having to entertain myself!

[AntiGrinch]

So imagine there were x people living in a house and there was a moneybox that got filled up, or partly filled up, at certain intervals (predictable or otherwise). you look in the box, and if there is money there you can take it; last time you looked, or next time you look, there may not be.

Where this is desperately cruel is that the people who live like this usually love with one other person, not several (which makes it more personal); and don't recognise that it is through the efforts of others that money arrives in the box. they think money or no money is a bit like weather.

it also doesn't take into account that when there is money in the box, not only has someone else put it there but that person has foregone spending it themselves. It's kind of taking it from someone else twice.

[highinthesky]

You really don't have enough disposable income for one of you to be a SAHP. Back to work for DH.

[AntiGrinch]

I'd kick him out. It's really disrespectful of him to expect to have entertainment at the expense of necessities, and suggesting you steal and risk your job is vile. you sound really worn down by it, as if he is always on about money. It won't change.

[category12]

He asked you to steal from your work for his night out.
He asked you to steal from your work for his night out.

Hmm, yes, not something I'd be getting over too easily. He's got no moral sense about money. He would happily put you at risk of losing your sole source of income as a family for gross misconduct and possible criminal record for a night out.

There's not a lot you can do with someone like that.

[cordeliavorkosigan]

Make a pie chart to show him how much of the shared money is going on just him and his fun at the cost of all the rest of you! That's just crap and not what a good father or a good parent would do. If he can't see it he's too selfish to parent with. If he can see it but not control it you'll have to take charge of all the finances .