Did the things which brought you to orgasm change totally after childbirth?

[Bumbandit]

I've name changed for this because I post quite a lot and this is a bit of an - ahem- intimate subject.

Ok, so the back story to this question is that I had a really bad birth experience - the kind of one which makes midwives reading your notes suck their teeth and say 'Oh love, you really WERE unlucky weren't you.' ONE of the things which went wrong was that DS got stuck whilst I was at the pushing stage and the midwife didn't believe me when I panted out that I couldn't do this. After over an hour and a half of pushing on a very stuck baby (which is EXCRUTIATINGLY painful and very, very frightening) my lovely DH insisted that as I had been giving it some serious welly and the baby's heartbeat wasn't getting any closer, he wanted me to see a consultant NOW.

I've done all my grieving for that, contacted the Birth Trauma Association, cried a lot and had some great HV support. I'm sure if I was planning on having another I'd be having birth nightmares, but as it is, its old (5 year old) water under the bridge now.

However, since then I've really struggled to come to orgasm - what used to work for me before (small vibe plus G spot) doesn't even come close now. It has led to a few very, very frustrating years for me and DH. But I recently found that a Hitachi Wand (which is one major earth mover of a vibe with sound effects to match) plus a friendly finger up the arse does wonders. And it just DIDN'T before.

I'm delighted that we've found something that 'works' for me but because a vibe that big is so hard to incorporate into sex I often feel a bit like I am being 'serviced' afterwards. Even I find it hard to see my new 'earth mover' vibe as sexy. DH is lovely.. patient, kind and pleased that I am no longer sobbing at three am because I'm so turned on and there is no release (as well as feeling distinctly 'broken').

I've seen gynaes who were next to useless but who did mention that it was possible that some ' nerve damage' may have occurred. But apparently that's all a bit of a mystery to the medical profession, and they knew of no specialists working on it - as opposed to people working on erectile dysfunction of which there are gazillions.

So what I wanted to ask those of you who had a vaginal birth, and perhaps even ones who had a birth where the baby got 'stuck', have you had a similar experience? Did it feel like someone had 'moved the furniture around' after childbirth? I honestly don't think this is emotional trauma - it feels like a mechanical change to me. Also, has anyone found anything that works in the same way as the Hitachi Wand but which a/ isn't enormous and b/ doesn't entail plugging in like you're recharging a phone? It's rather off-putting...

[Dahlen]

I can't help you with solutions, I'm afraid, but I wanted to reassure you that what you're describing has happened to several people I know. I definitely think that childbirth - particularly a difficult one - can restructure things somewhat. The nerve damage explanation sounds very plausible to me. You're not a freak by any stretch of the imagination.

Hope you find some solutions.

[sadnewmum]

I had a similar experience in childbirth - the baby was stuck, 2 hours of serious pushing, no movement, eventually they took me in and did a forceps delivery.

I have noticed some differences, but not as extreme as you. I also have the magic wand, but had it way before DS was born 6 weeks ago. If you want, I can PM you with some tips on how to use it together - or just post it here if people are ok with that.

[MovedFurniture]

Name changed for my reply to you, too. I'm so sorry for your awful birth experience. It is easier the second time. So much easier. Your body has experience of it and knows what to do.

You are not the only one to experience this moving-of-parts. My babies were heavy. Second weighed 2lb more than the first, but I was surprised that it was the first one who did the damage, not the second. First one took so long to be born that my pelvic floor took a hammering from hours and hours of pushing, and I didn't even realise the damage was there until I was pregnant with a massive baby the second time around. That was a horrible pregnancy: I really felt like my pelvis might break in two every time I walked anywhere.

After the second birth I was left with a small vaginal prolapse, and I saw a pelvic physio who taught me the exercises to do to get things back into shape. It took 6-8 months. It was a cross between Kegels and Pilates.

What I never told the physio was that I couldn't orgasm any more. I didn't realise how long the problem was going to last for, and I'd assumed that the hormones of breastfeeding were interfering or something. You know how when you have a clitoral orgasm, it feels like the equivalent of a sneeze. Imagine your sneeze starts as a tingle/rush back in your sinuses but then never gets further forward than that. There is the beginning of the familiar whoosh of sensation, but it hits a wall of numbness and doesn't get far enough forward to make it out as a sneeze. Translate that feeling to the clitoris, and that's what my orgasms felt like. They weren't orgasms: they were the beginnings of them, but they never came to a head.

It DID get better. All of it. I did my exercises, and I kept on trying to get myself to orgasm, kept the nerves working, lying face down, to increase the blood flow. The nerves did redevelop, the sensation got closer and closer with time, and eight months after my last baby was born I managed to have a clitoral climax. I cried afterwards. I'd thought I'd be broken for ever.

So these things can be rebuilt. If you can do some research into pelvic physiotherapy, I seriously recommend it. It isn't talked about enough.

But to answer your question, yes! I feel things have moved around. After sex now, even when I haven't come, we've found that the lightest touch on my lower tummy sends post-orgasmic shudders through me. It's amazing. We joke about it. My partner loves giving it a light tap after sex just to watch me go to jelly. I never had this spot before, and I'm really happy to have it now. I feel orgasms more deeply inside now instead of just at the front. I find sex far more deeply satisfying.

Pelvic physiotherapy. It is brilliant. Have a look at it. If you can see a specialist, do. You will have the most astoundingly frank and open conversations you may ever have had with another human being.

[Bumbandit]

Thanks very much for all of your very kind and supportive answers. Was worried people would think.I was a man looking for a wank...

. I will check out pelvic physiotherapy Movedfurniture.

And yes please for tips Sadnewmum, as long as not TMI for anyone else?

But worried about your name, alongside the account you gave of your own birth experience. Pushing on a stuck baby and not being believed when you try to say something is wrong is the closest I have ever come to torture - and I don't use that word lightly.

DM me if you want a private chat, my heart goes out to others who have had what is often trivialised as a 'bad birth experience'. And people just don't know what to say. I lost count of the number of people who just said 'Well he's here and you're here, so let's just count ourselves lucky and move along, shall we?' So sing out if you want a supportive chat.

[Bumbandit]

Thanks very much for all of your very kind and supportive answers. Was worried people would think.I was a man looking for a wank...

. I will check out pelvic physiotherapy Movedfurniture.

And yes please for tips Sadnewmum, as long as not TMI for anyone else?

But worried about your name, alongside the account you gave of your own birth experience. Pushing on a stuck baby and not being believed when you try to say something is wrong is the closest I have ever come to torture - and I don't use that word lightly.

DM me if you want a private chat, my heart goes out to others who have had what is often trivialised as a 'bad birth experience'. And people just don't know what to say. I lost count of the number of people who just said 'Well he's here and you're here, so let's just count ourselves lucky and move along, shall we?' So sing out if you want a supportive chat.

[Bumbandit]

Oops sorry, double posted on phone by accident. Yes Movedfurniture a stopped sneeze is exactly how it feels - and I feel that way for hours!

So I can't sleep.until 2 or 3, then.of course DS is up at 6 and I am ratty, tired and out of sorts all the next day. Then DH feels so bad for making me feel bad, he stops approaching me for sex, so I feel increasingly 'broken' and unattractive so I don't approach him either. Talk about a vicious circle!

The worst gynae I ever saw asked me why I wasn't just happy 'with a kiss and a cuddle and pleasing my husband' because 'orgasms aren't everything you know. I was torn between bursting into tears and headbutting him.

Why isn't this talked about more?

[scooterland]

another vote for pelvic physiotherapy. Absolutely recommended.
I did find my GP thought I was a drama queen when I asked about it. It was really like, do your pelvic floor exercises first and then come back. Really like I wasn't making enough of an effort and my GP is a woman... It was all very vague, no referral, no specific advice, ,just 'pelvic floor'. Right but I just felt like saying that actually everything 'down there' felt different but then when you feel like this you're very vulnerable and not always strong enough to argue back. I imagine some gynae may well take the same view. A friend of mine had incontinence at times after birth and was given the same blanket answer by the doctor. They told her to get checked for UTI even though she knew it wasn't that. And then after UTI was ruled out it was like 'do your pelvic floors and you'll be fine'.

I think it's very sad. In some other European countries it's a given that if you have a vaginal birth you need some kind of pelvic physio after, traumatic birth or not.

[ROARmeow]

Interesting thread.

I feel a bit like this, but in a different way.

After 2 vaginal births with babies around 9lbs each things feel a bit 'different'. I've always found orgasm easy and thank the Lord that hasn't changed since DC were born.

What I find is that whenever DH tries to use his fingers inside my vagina I hate it. Hate it and find it turns me to stone. He thinks this is a bit odd, but is happy to do what pleases me and avoid what irks me.

Also, I have never masturbated using my fingers since DC were born. Just the idea makes me feel ill.

[Bumbandit]

That's interesting ROARmeow. What do you think it might be about? Just your preferences changing or something else?

[PedantMarina]

Errrm, what's an orgasm?

DS nearly 4....

[Bumbandit]

For the record yes, DS was over 9lb too - we all seem to have had big babies and interventions - although DS was ventoused out, not forceps.

But then I had to have an 8 hour op because the placenta was not just 'stuck' but had actually grown up towards my internal organs. Apparently its one of those really rare freak occurrences and I made quite a lot of medical students' night because I consented to let them watch. I am forever grateful to the skill of the specialist surgeons that night because apparently its a really difficult call - most just whip out the whole uterus (which of course catapults you into menopause), the alternative is trying to flake each piece out very very delicately which if you get wrong results in you haemmoraghing (possibly to death). So frankly if a couple of nerves got damaged in the process I wouldn't be surprised - nor would I blame them.

But I am very hopeful when you say that pelvic physiotherapy might be able to restore some more -ahem -functionality. How did you go about getting a referral scooterland and movedfurniture?

[Bumbandit]

Really Pedant? Poor you. Tell us what happened. If you want to, that is. There seem to be some women here have got some good results through pelvic psychotherapy and I don't mind sharing a thread!

[elQuintoConyo]

Name changed too, I'm afraid. I usually have a sweary nn.

DS was a 10lb, forceps birth, they turned him round with forceps just an hour before he came out. I was ripped to shit and had a very problematic episiotomy.
Exactly a year later, I went for corrective surgery as they'd sewn me too tightly and I had a trapped nerve just inside my vagina for 20 months. Oh, before I had my corrective surgery, I went in for two attempts to ease the pain by having cortisone injected directly into the scar tissue.
I am immensely private and painfully shy (have only ever had sex with husband!), I gave birth to a roomful of 9 - birth was so rare that they brought students in, and gynaes/midwives were taking it in turns to press my knees to my chest while another rugby playing monolith gynae leaned on my tummy. Then more inept arseholes with the cortisone and patronising old buzzard chief gynae for the operation.
DS is 2.3 and we've only just been able to attempt penetrative sex, so it's very early days yet. DH used to do an amazing wiggly finger trick - but I can't bare him to touch me anywhere between bellybutton and knee.
I have beem able to bring myself to orgasm, which makes me feel immensly guilty, and only in private. It does feel different, not so intense, more of a squeezy tickle than my old WHAMMY convulsions, iyswim

I shall keep an open mind, then, about what to expect, and what might work now for orgasm.

I'm off to blub into my tea as this has opened up a whole lot of that I thought I'd got over.

for everyone on this thread

[elQuintoConyo]

Name change fail. Goddamn fone.

Que sera, sera!

[Bumbandit]

Oh my God ElQuinto! I am also on phone otherwise I would have a row of shocked emoticons. They sound utterly incompetent! And so lacking in care for you. I am so very, very sorry that happened and that you had so many problems after the birth too.

I am also very sorry I made you blub into your tea - perhaps I should relabel this thread 'potentially triggering' (if I can work out how). I don't know if you are in the UK, but if you are I can wholeheartedly recommend the Birth Trauma Association.

[elQuintoConyo]

Oh no, putting 'trihgering' into the title wouldn't change a thing, for me anyway. Just typing it out made me realise I wasn't as 'ok' as I thought I was. Plus the sex attempt with DH was only about 2-3 weeks ago, so that's still fresh.
I have to say, though, that when we did have penetrative sex I had emotions flooding back of us two shy young things when met in Italy, rather than a roomful of strangers staring at my bleeding bits. So that was an unexpected bonus

I'm in Spain, nothing here for post-birth counselling. Lots of 'just get on with it' nonsense. Spaniards (well, Catalans) are a bit obsessed with illness, so there are always people asking about the birth and exchanging horror stories. Mumsnet helps

[Bumbandit]

It's hard when sex with the person you love becomes so fraught, when it has been such a joy isn't it? Big Hug.

Hopefully it will get better for all of us over time. Love the image of the two of you as shy young things...that's so sweet.

[sadnewmum]

Bumbandit - the name refers to post natal depression, which I also have. I am managing ok, especially now that I am back on antidepressants.

With reference to the magic wand - hopefully this is not tmi for too many lol. There are 4 main ways we make it work for us - and I never use it on its own, always with OH. (I never take the notion to go solo lol)

An obvious one is me on my back with the wand at the clit while he uses fingers to penetrate. Always works for me.

2nd option is me on my back with my legs up over his shoulders while he penetrates me while up on his knees - he'll be upright, perpendicular to me. That leaves room to get the wand to the clit.

3rd option is him on his side and me on my back at right angles to him and my legs over him. Its less cuddly but gives good access for the toy.

And my personal favourite is me on my knees, with my ass up and my head down, holding the wand against the clit while he goes from behind. OMG lol.

He is very in favour of the toy as he can feel the vibrations too during sex and he likes me to get off.

I hope this has helped!

[Bumbandit]

Thanks sadnewmum I will see if I can tempt him...v glad the meds are helping you, PND is the pits...

[PedantMarina]

I was sort of joking, doing the self-efface-y thing. sorry if i made you worry, bumbandit.

truth to tell, my libido is shot to hell; can't remember the last time I had sex, let alone to my - ahem - satisfaction.

[Bumbandit]

Thanks for coming back and telling me Pedant! I.did kinda wonder where you'd gone to but then, I am parked in bed with tonsillitis so can MN all day...

Is it just knackeredness and the demands of small DC for you then? I disctintly remembering how on earth couples could go as much as a month (or two!) without sex...and now I am one of them!

If you are UK-based, myself and a number of MN-based Muskewenches are finding the BBC's Musketeers series to be a grand place to work out where we put that desire thing we used to be so well acquainted with.

Hot men in leather....with swords! Hurrah!

[Doshusallie]

Sorry have not read whole thread, but can definitely relate op. I have only ever achieved orgasm through"straight" penetrative sex since I had my kids. "Normalish" births, one ventouse, one clamps (how weird, can't remember the name of them now) but something definitely got moved about as always had to have stimulation elsewhere to climax before.

[Bumbandit]

Very green that its got EASIER for you and Matyroshka, Doshusallie but still, more power to your...er... bits.

And a linky for Pedant. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a2003777-To-not-know-who-from-the-Musketeers-Id-boff-first

Go on, 1000 Mumsnetters can't be wrong! Cheaper and more fun than Relate too, I'd have thought!

[MrsKent]

ElQuinto
There is a brilliant physiotherapy centre that specialises in women's health called ElCentre in Barcelona, they may be able to help you.