Was Cameron right to reject calls to open borders?

(115 Posts)
StorminaBcup Fri 22-Jul-16 19:56:40

Before I say anything else, I have not started this thread to be goady, xenophobic, racist, intolerant although I suspect I am ignorant of what are perhaps finer details.

In view of the events in Paris, Brussels, Nice and now Munich, (and suggestions that some of the attackers had entered the countries as refugees / migrants ); was Merkel right to open Germany's borders or was Cameron right to resist the pressure to do the same?

I'm torn. On the one hand it's a humanitarian catastrophe, something should have been done sooner and to deny help to thousands of refugees is unthinkable. But, I'm now wondering if those countries who were insistent on papers (but were accused of bottle-necking the process by stopping trains) were actually right too. I realise a paper-documenting exercise is also futile in a lot of situations so I'm not even sure that would've helped.

I know these things are never black and white but I've read some really interesting discussions on here so I'm curious to see what others think.

<puts on flame-proof pants>

YorkieTalkie Fri 22-Jul-16 20:04:18

He was elected to protect and serve the interests of the British people. He was 100% right.

ThroughThickAndThin01 Fri 22-Jul-16 20:08:21

As Yorkie says.

Oakmaiden Fri 22-Jul-16 20:16:03

I strongly suspect that the people who were coming to Europe to commit terrorist offences would have got in anyway. The only way they could be stopped is by building a big wall and placing guards and machine guns along the length of it. Yes, making it easier for genuine refugees also made it easier for them, but hopefully also prevented a great deal of misery and deprivation for those genuinely fleeing conflict.

But, as I said, I think the "bad guys" would have come and caused their misery anyway.

So I don't think he was right, no. I think we sit very comfortably in our island isolation sometimes. And that is the way a lot of people like it.

meditrina Fri 22-Jul-16 20:17:43

I think it was the right decision to take in refugees from the UN camps.

So we have some idea that they are genuine refugees. And to give a route to asylum other than flimsy, dangerous boat.

lljkk Fri 22-Jul-16 20:21:51

Also they are getting here on basis of need not basis of willingness to do extremely risky journey.

YorkieTalkie Fri 22-Jul-16 20:22:34

Oakmaiden - "I think we sit very comfortably in our island isolation sometimes. And that is the way a lot of people like it"

Yeah, how dare we like to remain safe and secure. How very dare we!

SoThisIsSummer Fri 22-Jul-16 20:33:04

The absolute first priority of any government is to protect its citizens.

Of course having to cross proper borders with border controls make it harder for wrong doers to enter a country.
Without a doubt open boarders across the EU has helped and enabled terrorists, we know this. Its not new. I do not believe Merkel of Hollande and others are putting their citizens first and they will pay for it by loosing elections. We will all pay for it, because its causing the rise of the far right. They have put the ideology of the EU before their citizens. We also have to bear in mind, we do not know who the attackers are at this time.

MumOnTheRunCatchingUp Fri 22-Jul-16 20:36:33

i think its still early days yet....we will see more and more over coming years

Cameron was 100% correct. completely

did anyone see last nights documentary about the refugee camps?

DoinItFine Fri 22-Jul-16 20:40:23

I agree with meditrina.

The UK did not close its borders to refugees.

The open borders policy waw irresponsible and cynical and caused even more suffering IMO.

WantToRunAgain Fri 22-Jul-16 20:41:02

But we're not safe and secure! 7/7 anyone?

It's a frightening and desperate situation and I fear greatly for the potential social unrest in France and Germany that will follow these attacks. sad

DoinItFine Fri 22-Jul-16 20:43:03

Also they are getting here on basis of need not basis of willingness to do extremely risky journey.

Not only willingness, but ability to afford and survive a risky and expensive journey aided by people traffickers.

The moral choice is not to support that and to take the most vulnerable from the camps.

FruitCider Fri 22-Jul-16 20:46:54

The borders ARE closed to refugees. The only way fir someone to claim asylum is to illegally enter Europe, then the UK. I'm a firm believer in the right to safe passage. No one puts their baby on a boat unless the sea is safer than the land.

https://youtu.be/Vf48Ywi04Ys

FruitCider Fri 22-Jul-16 20:49:58

Not only willingness, but ability to afford and survive a risky and expensive journey aided by people traffickers.

What, so people are only genuine refugees if they are poor? What utter nonsense. Syria was not a poor country!

WantToRunAgain Fri 22-Jul-16 20:51:37

FruitCider, think that is a very common misconception - look at all the shock horror coverage of refugees owning iPhones!

FruitCider Fri 22-Jul-16 20:52:12

But we're not safe and secure! 7/7 anyone?

7/7 was carried out by British born terrorists don't forget. Not immigrants.

FruitCider Fri 22-Jul-16 20:52:58

If I was going to make a daddy journey I would want a smart phone capable of gps, sat nav, and Skype. Who wouldn't?!?!?

DoinItFine Fri 22-Jul-16 20:52:59

The borders ARE closed to refugees. The only way fir someone to claim asylum is to illegally enter Europe, then the UK.

The borders are not open to anyone who shows up.

We are taking refugees from the camps.

Which is what we should be doing.

No one puts their baby on a boat unless the sea is safer than the land

That isn't even true of people who enjoy going on boats for fun.

What a ridiculously simplistic notion.

I know, why not incentivise desperate (or malicious) people to put children at risk?

Because children are never put at risk of harm to fulfil adult ambitions.

FruitCider Fri 22-Jul-16 20:56:42

So you honestly think refugees should be forced to stay in camps that are overcrowded on europes borders just to appease the people that read nonsense from the daily fail? We've taken less than 1000 refugees this year. 54 million people are displaced around the world.

Are people really this blind to why refugees make this journey?

FruitCider Fri 22-Jul-16 20:57:14

Daddy journey? I meant dangerous, clearly!

DoinItFine Fri 22-Jul-16 20:57:26

What, so people are only genuine refugees if they are poor?

No, of course not.

But it is cynical and exploitative in the extreme to make sure you take only the richest and fittest refugees by forcing them to make a dangerous and expensive journey to claim asylum.

My point is that poor and vulnerable Syrians have exactly the same right to claim asylum asctheir richer countrymen and shoukd not be left mouldering in refugee camps in the middle east for decades while EU countries abuse the Dublin agreement to cherry pick the refugees they want.

DoinItFine Fri 22-Jul-16 20:58:57

I don't think refugees should stay in camps while economic migrants and people traffickers abuse the asylum system.

But it appears that you do.

FruitCider Fri 22-Jul-16 21:00:34

I personally wouldn't class people from Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan, Eritrea, Iran, Iraq and Syria as economic migrants...

StorminaBcup Fri 22-Jul-16 21:01:11

MumOnTheRun I didn't - was it good viewing? Is it on catch-up anywhere?

Thanks for the responses, interesting views. Completely agree that those who wanted to cause conflict and damage would have entered anyway (from within Europe or outside of Europe, as nothing has been proved yet). Also agree that the majority of those seeking asylum have done so under desperate measures.

I did see one documentary (on BBC I think) where a film crew followed a desperate family with no papers as they were lost at sea. They made it all the way through Greece and caught up with them again in Croatia, except only the 'husband' was there. It turned out he had used the mother and her children to gain access to Europe and he had 'lost' her papers on the boat rendering her extremely vulnerable. They'd fallen out over this and he'd left her. Is these kinds of stories that make me think. It can't be a one off.

MumOnTheRunCatchingUp Fri 22-Jul-16 21:01:56

so they come here to be overcrowded in a B and B

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