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Our children will be conscripted into a Euro army run by unelected bureaucrats controlled by lobbyists.

(200 Posts)
bkgirl Sat 18-Jun-16 13:16:06

So here's the thing.
I can't stand Farage and his racist cronies. I do like Europe, I like the idea of a european union and us all working together . However unelected bureaucrats have more power than our MEP's so democratic - it certainly isn't. The EU definitely wants a Euro Army and controlled essentially bu these officials who we can't unelect is CRAZY. Our kids, boys and girls are likely to be conscripted to fight in wars for the benefit of the people who pay the lobbyists. It's like the biggest con in history. Our ancestors who fought for democracy would be furious.

JassyRadlett Sat 18-Jun-16 13:20:56

You've missed out the role of the Council. On foreign policy it isn't QMV - any individual member state can veto any individual policy proposal on foreign policy. That includes conscription. That includes a Euro army, full stop. If the UK government of the day doesn't want it, it can't happen.

It's disappointing to see untruthful scaremongering appearing again.

Kewcumber Sat 18-Jun-16 13:21:19

This prime minister and all previous prime ministers (as far as I know) have ruled out the possibility of Britain being in an EU army "EU treaties are clear that it could be blocked by Britain."

I'm not sure he's very sure what he thinks as in Feb he signed a letter saying Britain was stonger in. hmm There hasn't been any change in the status of a European army since Feb as far as I know (Pretty sure it would have been reported on) so not quite sure what he's talking about.

Just because the "leave"camp says there's going to be a European army doesn;t actually make it true.

ChipStix Sat 18-Jun-16 13:21:43

I just don't know who or what to believe anymore.

The whole referendum is a farce. It's patronising, simplistic and dishonest. On both sides.

I will bite remain because the EU protects workers rights to a degree and frankly I trust the leave folk slightly less than the remain lot.

Kewcumber Sat 18-Jun-16 13:21:46

and what Jassy said

OTheHugeManatee Sat 18-Jun-16 13:22:14

And what assurances do we have that future treaties will retain the voting arrangement for foreign policy?

JassyRadlett Sat 18-Jun-16 13:23:23

And what assurances do we have that future treaties will retain the voting arrangement for foreign policy?

We can reject a future treaty at referendum.

Kewcumber Sat 18-Jun-16 13:24:24

I will bite remain because the EU protects workers rights to a degree and frankly I trust the leave folk slightly less than the remain lot.

Same here (though I intend to vote rather than bite wink )

Many out campaigners have a wildly unrealistic view on Britains importance in the world and our ability to negotiate deals alone.

Ouriana Sat 18-Jun-16 13:24:27

What if the EU want it and the UK is out voted?
Its a genuine question, I hadnt even heard of the EU army a few weeks ago and reading the things from the EU make it sound like a future certainty.

AFAIK the EU are already becoming involved in military affairs and running border campaigns, I dont see how they can be stopped.

JassyRadlett Sat 18-Jun-16 13:26:56

What if the EU want it and the UK is out voted?

That can't happen, because on foreign policy it's not a question of votes. Any individual member state can veto a foreign proposal.

The only way that will change, as OTheHuge pointed out, is through treaty change. And the UK now has domestic legislation to trigger a referendum on any treaty change.

bkgirl Sat 18-Jun-16 13:27:18

If the EU was run as a democracy our elected MEP's would have full access to trade agreements. They don't. Here is proof.

Viviennemary Sat 18-Jun-16 13:30:07

Lots of stuff is being held back in case it puts us off voting remain like our masters have told us we must unless we want the end of the world as we know it. It's a nice world that suits the rich. They don't want that changed.

Justchanged Sat 18-Jun-16 13:31:18

Honestly, this is ridiculous and blatant scaremongering. There is no EU army, the UK has a veto. And where did this conscription thing into an imaginary army come from?

Please can we have a reasoned debate without hysteria.

JassyRadlett Sat 18-Jun-16 13:31:31

How is that different to the fact that our government would not generally share the detail of trade deals underway with all MPs? National governments alongside the Commission have been party to the TTIP talks (Anna Soubry has made the papers available to UK MPs on a similar basis to MEPs' access).

You seem very determined not to mention the role of the council. Why is that?

Spinflight Sat 18-Jun-16 14:03:18

There is no EU army....

No I'd agree. There are however several existing military structures which could be combined to instantly form one with the stroke of a pen.

Viviennemary Sat 18-Jun-16 14:04:28

I don't want to be ruled by Europe. End of. So I'm voting out. And I read there is to be a European army. Believe that if you want. The retired head of the armed forces has come out and said he is in favour of leaving the EU. This was in the Telegraph today. If I remember rightly.

bkgirl Sat 18-Jun-16 14:07:23

EU referendum: Ex-army chief Lord Guthrie switches to Leave
Former defence chief Lord Guthrie has switched sides to the Leave campaign in the EU referendum, saying he is worried by the prospect of "a European army".
In February the ex-chief of the defence staff signed a Downing Street letter calling for the UK to stay in the EU.
But he has told the Telegraph that was "a mistake" and said he believed a vote to Leave "is better for defence".

OhtoblazeswithElvira Sat 18-Jun-16 14:14:03

It's all a pack of ridiculous lies - again. But you have achieved your goal OP: millions of mumsnetters have read your thread title, some will have believed it. Thanks to you we hate each other a bit more and we are a bit more ignorant and bigoted. Well done.

Move on now, time to start another thread along the same lines.

Lweji Sat 18-Jun-16 14:17:08

What kind of idiots come up with this stuff.
If anything I'd be more worried about the direction NATO is taking. Not an imaginary European army.

Viviennemary Sat 18-Jun-16 14:18:18

Everyone's a bigot who doesn't agree with you. Oh the irony!

bkgirl Sat 18-Jun-16 14:20:16

No, time to think, challenge and debate. I have children and yes I reserve the right to demand democracy. I don't like war, I think refugees should be saved and cared for, I challenge racism. Instead of saying it is lies show the counterargument. If you can. I am genuinely, really worried for my kids and do not believe the EU is a democracy. This general has really worried me.
Why should we ignore his concerns?

bkgirl Sat 18-Jun-16 14:23:55

"During an interview on 8 March, Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker said that the EU needed its own military, in order to deal with the Russian threat, as well as to restore the bloc’s standing around the world"..... and Juncker always seems to get his way. sad

YourPerception Sat 18-Jun-16 14:24:40

Have the EU NI type numbers all got a 666 in them and all being microchipped into our right hands?

Kewcumber Sat 18-Jun-16 14:30:13

A spokesman for the Cameron government told EurActiv UK: “Our position is crystal clear that defence is a national, not an EU responsibility and that there is no prospect of that position changing and no prospect of a European army.”

There is NO consensus for a European army - more countries disagree with the idea than agree.

Whatever Junckers "wants" isn't relevant. There is plenty to argue for a leave vote (and I'm in the Remain camp!) without making stuff up.

Kewcumber Sat 18-Jun-16 14:31:17

Why should we ignore his concerns?

Because 4 months ago he was all in favour of the EU because we were safer in it.

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