To be fuming with my 4yo?

[Jellybeansincognito]

I have 2 children- 4 and 2.
The 4 year old started school this September and I’ve noticed she has begun smacking her brother in anger.

She has cracked him round the face this afternoon whilst holding her plastic drink cup, it has left a scratch and bruise on his face. I am furious with her.

I have sent her upstairs whilst I consider an appropriate punishment but AIBU being absolutely fuming with her?

How do I even begin to deal with this?

[TheTrollFairy]

How is she getting on at school? It’s a big change for them and a lot of kids struggle with school and are over tired!
Christmas holidays are soon so I think her behaviour will improve then.

Does she feel jealous of the time the little one gets with you whilst she is at school? Do you get much one on one time?

Have you discussed this with her at a level that a 4 year old will understand? Maybe try putting something in place or look for things which show she is about to get angry and try and re divert her attention into something else b

[TheTrollFairy]

^^ not sure where the b came from

[Jellybeansincognito]

She absolutely loves it.
There hasn’t ever been any jealousy- I try and be as equal as possible.
Her brother is quite climby- she did this in response to that (he climbed on her).

I do understand that she’s gone through a big change and I appreciate her brother can be overwhelming and persistent (it’s just how he is, I know it will improve with age) but the extent of her reactions is starting to get worse and worse.

Not really sure how to punish her to make it clear that this will not be tolerated, but at the same time not be too harsh on her for it. Because she’s only 4- she’s not entirely responsible for her reactions.

[BlackSwanGreen]

Of course YANBU to be cross - she knows this is wrong and it's awful to see your younger child getting hurt. But I agree with pp that this is a difficult time for her - starting school is a big transition and she's probably exhausted by this point in the term.

Everything ok at school? Any chance anyone is being mean to her?

Put aside some time in the holidays to do special things with her (as well as lots of down time for her).

[Boom45]

When we were young my brother got very angry, used to hit me and my other siblings (we were very young, not as teens or anything). My mum had some advice from a child psychologist through the school and he actually advised against sending him to his room. If your DD anger has started from her starting school and might have something to do with her being jealous of her brother being at home with you all day then sending her away could just reinforce that. My mum was advised to make my brother stand by her, no toys or anything, just keep him close by and when he'd calmed down give him a hug and then talk to him.
She's still very young, and struggling to Express what she's feeling properly. No excuse for hitting obviously but at her age theres so much going on it can be really difficult for them to process their emotions.

[TheTrollFairy]

Sometimes it doesn’t really matter if they enjoy school or not (although not enjoying it will make things worse)
I think a lot of it will be tiredness especially coming to the end of a term.

Although different (and admittedly I’m not always good at doing this) when my DD hits me I try and talk through her Fustration with her and then I ask her why it’s not kind to hit me (by getting the child to explain makes them think about it more than you telling them that it’s not nice and it hurts if that makes sense). I then make her apologise to me - saying sorry and giving a kiss and a cuddle. Would this work with your dd do you think?
As a side note, it also works with things like teeth brushing, chewing food etc, I ask DD why it’s important to do it and then she explains and seems to accept it more

[eddiemairswife]

Can she do some of her activities at the table, and can he be discouraged from climbing on her? It must be very irritating for her.

[DisplayPurposesOnly]

Her brother is quite climby- she did this in response to that (he climbed on her).

How do you deal with this? Obviously her hitting him isn't great but this would be heavy provocation - I'd smack someone climbing on me

She needs to be told/shown how to deal with it (push not hit, move away, tell mummy or daddy) and she needs to know you'll back her up (by removing and reproving climbing child).

[DisplayPurposesOnly]

Also, does she need down time after school? Perhaps their needs are colliding - she needs to decompress whilst he's 'you're home, yay!' all over her?

[Quartz2208]

I think you are looking at this wrongly - he was persistently climbing on her and getting into her personal space. Having spent all day at school with people and having to deal with rules and boundaries she just wants space.

So she had enough and lashed out. It isnt fair on her that he is overwhelming her when she needs space and downtime to decompress from school.

This doesnt need punishing it needs looking at to avoid it happening. She certainly should not be made to deal with him after school

[doritosdip]

You need to role play what to do next time her brother's being annoying. How's his understanding? (Using words rather than actions is the most obvious solution but I get that after school patience might be wearing thin but she needs to try)

[Clymene]

Why is he climbing on her? She is being punished for reacting because he's annoying her and getting in her face. Have you punished him?

I think you're in danger of treating her as much older than she is. She is 4, still a baby who doesn't have much more vocabulary, self-control or reasoning than your 2 year old does.

Don't punish her further - sending her to her room is punishment enough.

[Jellybeansincognito]

Her brother is quite climby- she did this in response to that (he climbed on her).

How do you deal with this? Obviously her hitting him isn't great but this would be heavy provocation - I'd smack someone climbing on me

^^

With difficulty to be honest. I cannot be next to them 24/7- he is generally a very difficult child. He’s almost 3 and still hits, screams like a banshee at everything and throws things when he doesn’t get his own way.
I generally struggle dealing with them as - even if I pull him away he will generally go back to antagonise her further.
I generally have to do this and at the same time ask her to move away.

He isn’t always like this- but is definitely going through a really difficult stage right now, and it’s really tough juggling the needs of both of them when they’re fighting.

[bridgetreilly]

Because she’s only 4- she’s not entirely responsible for her reactions.

She is, though. She'll get it wrong sometimes, and she'll need to learn better how to control them, but she still made the choice to hit her brother and she needs to learn that is never an acceptable reaction.

So in this situation:

1. There needs to be some kind of punishment for her - removal of screentime or a favoured toy or something that she will notice and dislike, but for a limited period of time.
   
2. There needs to be discussion of why that wasn't okay and how to handle the situation better next time.
   
3. She needs to say sorry to her brother. And he probably needs to say sorry to her for annoying her. It is never too young to learn to apologise.
   
4. In future, you try to make sure that when she's tired/hungry you see to those needs and don't let her brother annoy her.

[Jellybeansincognito]

To be clear- she hit him in the face earlier this week also.
All he did was sit next to her.

It’s not always a response to him, she has been also hitting me when she doesn’t get her own way.

I guess I need to work out why she’s lashing out.

[Jenala]

Punishing her will make it worse in the long run. She is expressing a feeling of some kind, just not in the right way. But it's our job to teach them the right way without shame. Sending her away will make her feel ashamed and likely more resentful of her brother, and make it harder to reach her next time it happens.

Have a read of some Laura Markham things, this is good www.ahaparenting.com/parenting-tools/siblings/stop_kids_hitting_siblings but if you google "aha parenting hitting sibling" she's written quite extensively about it with scripts and ways to manage it.

[Aycharow]

This doesn't need punishing What are you on about??? Of course she needs to be told off.

Immediately she did it you should have raised your voice at her that it was a BAD BAD thing to do and she must NEVER hit anybody again.

[Clymene]

Do you think that works well with 4 year olds Aycharow? Because it's supremely ineffective in my experience.

[Jellybeansincognito]

I sent her to her room for the benefit of both of us to be honest. It gave me time to calm and gather my thoughts before speaking to her.

I did go up and explained that I have spoken to Santa who has removed a present. To get the present back she needs to: say sorry (which she has)
And I’ve spoken to her in regards to her response to someone annoying her and said if she can walk away and tell mummy and not hit out as an instant response to it, she’ll get her toy back.

I’ve also removed her screen time for the rest of the day.

[Teachermaths]

She's lashing out because she sees her brother doing it and she has to deal with the consequences not him.

[ConstanceL]

This is a tricky one - at 4 impulse control still isn't great and if she was tired from school or cranky about something else then she just lashed out. If you are finding him to be at a tough age with your adult understanding then I'm sure your DD is finding it even tougher. So on balance I think you being 'absolutely fuming' is a bit of an over-reaction.

[Keepmewarm]

Have you asked her why she did it?

[Nursing83]

Mine are the same ages although possibly closer in age as my 4 year old doesnt start school till next September and my 2 year old is very nearly 3. Mine irritate each other a lot and due to the obvious size difference at this age it does tend to be the little one who comes off worse whether shes started the fight or not!

Is it possible that your 2 year old really misses the sibling but this is manifesting itself in behaviour that she is finding hard to tolerate after a day at school.

I have to separate mine when they start being too silly or fighting as it very quickly escalates. We have some nice simple calm games to play or I read some stories with them either side of me. We also have taught them if anyone is doing something you dont like you raise your hand palm outstretched in front and say NO! in your loudest voice so grown ups know there is a problem.

I dont make them say sorry to each other but we talk about why we dont hurt people and I ask them how that made their sister feel and what they need to do to make her feel better.

[Jellybeansincognito]

I can understand a bit of fighting between them- but to full on smack him so hard with a plastic object it’s instantly bruised and scratched enough to bleed, I will absolutely not tolerate.

I’m not completely heartless.
I was even in the room for this one- there wasn’t enough time for me intervene and help.

[NonnoMum]

Bless her. I think we underestimate how exhausted they are in the term they start school. And when we are exhausted we all do things we regret.
I wouldn't leave her too long, but have a chat about being kind, try and get a mumbled 'sorry' out of her and start bedtime...