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To put dd's names down for Scouts - DH thinks they are a "psuedo militaristic organisation that pledges allegiance to the monarchy and reinforces class divisions."

(335 Posts)
morningpaper Tue 08-May-07 18:44:36

Well I thought that the Brownies and Scouts were okay but DH has objected that I have put their names down because they are "psuedo militaristic organisations that pledges allegiance to the monarchy and reinforces class divisions."

I told him they are probably full of working class Muslim eco-warrier children but he says no.


TiggyD Sat 26-Jun-10 13:47:08

You have to believe in a god/gods to join which means they're in my personal axis of evil list.

piscesmoon Sat 26-Jun-10 12:09:41

It also depends what your local one is like-they vary enormously. They can be very boring and do nothing much. Another reason not to blanket it all together without looking into it locally first. They all allow for visits before being invested, so that the DC can make up their mind first. (they do not expect the parent to stay)

sarah293 Sat 26-Jun-10 11:38:02

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piscesmoon Sat 26-Jun-10 11:25:07

I didn't get as far as getting the uniform-I think that I tried about 3 meetings-but that was because I decided that it wasn't for me. It had absolutely nothing to do with my father's view of the Guide movement.I didn't know what he thought about it.He never said -since he had never been a Guide and was never going to be a Guide I don't think that his view would have been in the least helpful!

Rockbird Sat 26-Jun-10 10:38:34

Did any of us actually last the distance in the guides?

sarah293 Sat 26-Jun-10 09:32:12

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piscesmoon Sat 26-Jun-10 09:12:56

In the case of OP I would stick to your own ideas. Just tell him that you think that they are OK and the names are going on the list until such time as they can make up their own mind. Or are wives supposed to bow to 'superior wisdom'?! I am pro the monarchy and my DH is very anti-we live together perfectly amicably. I have no idea what the DSs think-they have never said-I expect they couldn't care either way.

piscesmoon Sat 26-Jun-10 09:06:04

'It's so sad that children are being denied so much because their parents are paranoid loons. '

I couldn't have put it better myself!
Also when did people stop trusting their DCs to make their own judgements? There is a terrific fear that anyone talking to a DC, that is in anyway different to the parent, is 'indoctrinating'. The real danger, to my mind, is that the parent tells the DC what to believe, so that they can't think for themselves and then they are open to someone who comes along and is more charismatic than the parent because they have never been allowed to even suggest that they think differently from the parent.
When I was a DC, especially a teenager, I had long debates with my parents over meal times. Looking back some of my beliefs make me cringe now-but they listened and didn't belittle them. You now get threads where the parent is upset if a vicar talks in a school assembly-as if one word from the vicar and the DC will be 'born again' and in church every week!!!

I suspect that many a parent with strong views is reacting against their own parents and not seeing that they are just as bad the other way!

Up until about 5 yrs,or possibly 8 yrs, you expect the DC to say 'my mummy thinks or my daddy thinks' the assumption being that they think the same. If a DC of Scout age told me 'I don't belong because Dad says
they are a "psuedo militaristic organisation that pledges allegiance to the monarchy and reinforces class divisions." I would say 'What do you think?'
I just fail completely to see why dad's view is any way relevant.

Although I think it is wonderful and DS1 got a great deal from it (it was a godsend as when he was 10 yrs he had toddler and baby brothers, so he could go off to the Lake District etc under canvas for 10 days) DS2 went to Beavers and Cubs and left and it wasn't DS3's thing at all, he went to Beavers but only went to a couple of Cub meetings. I respected that-they are all different.

DS2 toyed with the idea of Air Cadets and went to a couple of meetings, but decided against it. It was up to him-he would be really surprised-and tell me what he thought-if I expected him to join or not join according to my views.

My DSs are quick to tell me 'it is my life' and they are completely right! I think that there would be strong rebellion if I told them that they had to see the world 'as Pisces sees it'! I am very proud of the fact that they make up their own minds and I haven't the least worry about them being indoctrinated by anyone else.

BelleDameSansMerci Sat 26-Jun-10 08:41:59

Riven - what size/colour t-shirt are you after?

BelleDameSansMerci Sat 26-Jun-10 08:41:31

LOL Rockbird... I "left" the Guides under similar circumstances grin

Rockbird Sat 26-Jun-10 08:02:07

This is amazing reading. When did everyone get so scared of everything, as if people are lurking round corners waiting to indoctrinate their children. It's so sad that children are being denied so much because their parents are paranoid loons. Thankfully the last few posters seem sane but the rest...weird!

<Rockbird, who 'left' the guides by mutual agreement for being a disruptive influence>

piscesmoon Sat 26-Jun-10 07:04:14

I can't think of any other organisation that gives such freedom and responsibility, so cheaply.
The DCs get out in the open and camp in primitive conditions, they have to use their initiative. They go walking, sailing, rock climbing etc. They go out on midnight hikes. They have to map read, they have to use their initiative and work together as a group. The older ones help the younger ones.
They are still willing, in these days of the nanny state and health and safety, to take the DCs away and do all these things. They gave my DS a knife to cut long grass, he cut his hand, they took him to A & E to get it stitched and still let him have a knife-I was most impressed (and he didn't cut himself again!). It is a world wide organisation-they get together and learn about each other.They are all inclusive. My DS has friends all over the world. He has been to Switzerland where they have a wonderful international centre Kandersteg
It is all run by volunteers who give up their time.
They start these things early and start camping at Cub age (Beavers can camp with a parent). Where else can an 8 yr old go and not wash for an entire weekend?!

Then some person, with out dated prejudices, can just knock it, without offering to put themselves out to run an alternative!
I dare say he doesn't even think that he is narrow minded!

Jamieandhismagictorch Fri 25-Jun-10 22:50:35

I agree pisces - it was my son who came to me and asked to go to Cubs. It is one of the best choices he ever made.

piscesmoon Fri 25-Jun-10 20:49:30

I never wanted to be a Guide at that age (Scouts didn't have girls at the time) but that sort of attitude from parents would have made me want to immediately join! It is so narrow minded.

piscesmoon Fri 25-Jun-10 20:46:23

Does it matter though Snobear? Her DH isn't wanting to join! Or is the DC supposed to say 'yes dad-you are the parent and you can tell me what to believe?'
I can't get my head around the fact that because you give birth your DC has to believe what you tell them to believe. Maybe DC doesn't think it true, maybe DC has a mind of her own!

Snobear4000 Fri 25-Jun-10 20:10:07

I reckon your DH is spot-on.

scrappydappydoo Fri 25-Jun-10 19:54:49

Um - I haven't trawled through all the posts but MP - what does your dd want to do? It is her that will make promises, get involved etc Surely that is the main thing? She can try it and if she doesn't like it well then..

sarah293 Fri 25-Jun-10 18:18:10

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weblette Fri 25-Jun-10 17:39:23

Riven your group, if it's worth its salt, should have either spares or be able to help you with getting it. If you're stuck I'm sure I can find one kicking about here, speaking as a 37-yr-old mother of 4 'strange man'

piscesmoon Fri 25-Jun-10 17:05:28

Have you tried asking on freecycle? It is brilliant in our area.

cat64 Fri 25-Jun-10 16:57:11

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sarah293 Fri 25-Jun-10 16:39:03

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piscesmoon Fri 25-Jun-10 16:21:39

The ceremonial stuff is also not what the leaders go for every week. I interview new leaders for all sections. We have a panel and we always have to get to the part where we ask them how they feel about the promise to God and the Queen--generally they are not part of organised anything but are happy to 'go with the flow'. I haven't come across any that fit OP's DH's prejudices.

cat64 Fri 25-Jun-10 16:04:50

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Chil1234 Fri 25-Jun-10 15:21:53

You're not being unreasonable and your view is probably in the majority. I'm a cub leader and your husband is definitely out of touch in terms of 'class division'... scouting is about as all-inclusive as it gets these days - class, gender, disabled/able-bodied, religion etc. Yes, we have military origins, wear uniforms, wave flags occasionally and we promise to do our duty to God and the Queen when we join. If that really bothers your husband then there's not a lot anyone can do to convince him otherwise, I expect. (Is he the grumpy type that stays sat down with his arms folded for the national anthem?)

But the ceremonial stuff is not what keeps kids coming back each week. They want plenty of fun activities and we provide them within a framework of 'do their best, think of others before themselves and do a good turn every day'.... far more interesting!

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