To wonder how exactly the tories want you to prove you where raped?

[ghostyslovesheep]

In order to get CTC for a third child

I am utterly speechless at this

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jul/09/government-third-child-tax-credits-proposal-budget-rape

[CrapBag]

Fucking hell!

There are no words for this.....

Just when you think the Tories can't get any worse.

[thetroubleis]

I didn't believe you to be honest- WTAF? That is just... I have no words for that.

[sebsmummy1]

It looks as though they shoved that in there after a short meeting regarding exceptions.

Multiples? - yep that's fine, you can't help those.

Rape? - yep put that in, but they have to prove it or else everyone will use it as a loophole.

Tasteful

[limitedperiodonly]

Haven't really thought that through, have they?

What happens if you have IVF resulting in a twin birth or even triplet birth, which is common?

Would you be expected to abort the extra foetuses or just pay for the ones that came out after the first one?

[SouthWestmom]

Otoh, if the proposal was two children , people would be saying but what if someone's been raped? So they cant win.

[ghostyslovesheep]

It's like some kind of Victorian nightmare isn't it?

[sebsmummy1]

Also, could you argue it was against your human rights if you didn't use contraception due to religion? You cannot prevent a pregnancy and cannot have an abortion, therefore you have the right to have all the children supported if you can't support then yourself.

[FyreFly]

They haven't said 'you must prove it' though have they?

The clause just says there will be protections for a third child which may occur as a result of rape or other exceptional circumstances.

Everything else is all assumption and speculation at this stage..

[limitedperiodonly]

Sorry, my mistake. I see that they have covered multiple births.

So this one which caused an enormous amount of frothing at the time, and not simply because of the questionable decision to use fertility drugs, but also because the babies, if they'd have survived, would be a drain on the state, would be all right.

She was represented by Max Clifford btw.

[ghostyslovesheep]

They would just argue - have as many kids as you like but you will only get TC for 2 - Sebsmummy

Frye are you saying the DWP will just give it to women who say 'I had a 3rd child as I was raped' without wanting proof?

[knittingdad]

Otoh, if the proposal was two children , people would be saying but what if someone's been raped? So they cant win.

I guess they can't win because the proposal is such rubbish that it can't really be defended. Basically it is saying that, in the eyes of the state, the third child is not worthy of being supported. It is unwanted.

I guess I feel touchy about this because I'm a third child...

[molyholy]

It doesn't exactly say that, but I would expect it of them - y'know, considering they are asking terminally ill patients what date they think they are going to die so they can sort out their benefits accordingly

www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/06/terminally-ill-benefit-claimants-asked-when-they-expect-to-die-mp-says

[molyholy]

Proving the rape I mean

[FyreFly]

Ghost I really have no idea. I'm just pointing out that the only person who's said they'd have to prove rape is the journalist, not the official document.

Like I say, everything else at this stage is assumption and speculation.

[limitedperiodonly]

On thinking about it again if you have IVF you choose to do that. And if multiples transpire as a result you choose whether or not to abort individual foetuses in utero.

Seems not at all like a policy that's been scribbled on the back of a fag packet.

[scarlets]

The (rare) cases will be assessed on their merits I guess. I don't suppose that anyone would put themselves through a fake rape prosecution and trial, with the attendant risk of perjury, just for the sake of scamming tax credits. So I guess that if someone has reported a rape that resulted in a third pregnancy that isn't terminated, and the victim has a crime number, they'll get their dosh. It really won't happen often though. However, I think that in the occasional case when it does, it will add a layer of pain and hassle that the woman could well do without, so I hope it's efficient at least.

[GinandJag]

If you were raped, surely you would go to the police before discovering you were pregnant? There would be a paper trail before making a benefits claim.

[limitedperiodonly]

But they won't necessarily be rare. You wouldn't have to go rape prosecution, fake or real. You would just need to say it, surely?

Or should we set up tribunals?

[DoraGora]

Yup, the most important thing about rape is to check your benefit entitlement. Good one, Gina.

Incidentally, they're Tories. They'll trump this with some other scumbag nonsense. That's what Tories do.

[Teabagbeforemilk]

I agree with the 2 children rule tbh, in theory. But really don't get how it's going to work

[limitedperiodonly]

If you were raped, surely you would go to the police before discovering you were pregnant?

GinandJag Many women do not report rapes. And when they do, sometimes they aren't believed.

But even if the police do believe them, do you think it's reasonable to add yet another a layer of bureaucracy to the job of a police officer - testifying in rape tribunals for the purpose of awarding benefits?

Perhaps it's a lucrative new line for a company like ATOS.

[DoraGora]

The tribunal would be a waste of time. This is a request for benefits for the third child. The Tories can just say no. I seem to remember that being dead wasn't a sufficient reason for being unavailable for work, recently.

[Dawndonnaagain]

Yeah, you're always going to tell on your abusive husband aren't you Gina.

[DayLillie]

More policies written on the back of a fag packet/beer mat.

[MrsHathaway]

If you were raped, surely you would go to the police before discovering you were pregnant?

Politely, what planet do you live on? There are a million and one reasons women (and men for that matter, but irrelevant in this case because no chance of pregnancy) don't report rape.

This "exception" simply proves to me what a ridiculous and unworkable policy it is.

Raging.