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To wonder how exactly the tories want you to prove you where raped?

(110 Posts)
ghostyslovesheep Thu 09-Jul-15 14:04:25

In order to get CTC for a third child

I am utterly speechless at this

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jul/09/government-third-child-tax-credits-proposal-budget-rape

CrapBag Thu 09-Jul-15 14:09:25

Fucking hell!

There are no words for this.....

Just when you think the Tories can't get any worse.

thetroubleis Thu 09-Jul-15 14:11:24

I didn't believe you to be honest- WTAF? That is just... I have no words for that.

sebsmummy1 Thu 09-Jul-15 14:13:07

It looks as though they shoved that in there after a short meeting regarding exceptions.

Multiples? - yep that's fine, you can't help those.

Rape? - yep put that in, but they have to prove it or else everyone will use it as a loophole.

Tasteful hmm

limitedperiodonly Thu 09-Jul-15 14:13:32

Haven't really thought that through, have they?

What happens if you have IVF resulting in a twin birth or even triplet birth, which is common?

Would you be expected to abort the extra foetuses or just pay for the ones that came out after the first one?

Noeuf Thu 09-Jul-15 14:14:35

Otoh, if the proposal was two children , people would be saying but what if someone's been raped? So they cant win.

ghostyslovesheep Thu 09-Jul-15 14:14:52

It's like some kind of Victorian nightmare isn't it?

sebsmummy1 Thu 09-Jul-15 14:16:01

Also, could you argue it was against your human rights if you didn't use contraception due to religion? You cannot prevent a pregnancy and cannot have an abortion, therefore you have the right to have all the children supported if you can't support then yourself.

FyreFly Thu 09-Jul-15 14:16:53

They haven't said 'you must prove it' though have they?

The clause just says there will be protections for a third child which may occur as a result of rape or other exceptional circumstances.

Everything else is all assumption and speculation at this stage..

limitedperiodonly Thu 09-Jul-15 14:19:37

Sorry, my mistake. I see that they have covered multiple births.

So this one which caused an enormous amount of frothing at the time, and not simply because of the questionable decision to use fertility drugs, but also because the babies, if they'd have survived, would be a drain on the state, would be all right.

She was represented by Max Clifford btw.

ghostyslovesheep Thu 09-Jul-15 14:20:03

They would just argue - have as many kids as you like but you will only get TC for 2 - Sebsmummy

Frye are you saying the DWP will just give it to women who say 'I had a 3rd child as I was raped' without wanting proof?

knittingdad Thu 09-Jul-15 14:20:37

Otoh, if the proposal was two children , people would be saying but what if someone's been raped? So they cant win.

I guess they can't win because the proposal is such rubbish that it can't really be defended. Basically it is saying that, in the eyes of the state, the third child is not worthy of being supported. It is unwanted.

I guess I feel touchy about this because I'm a third child...

molyholy Thu 09-Jul-15 14:21:14

It doesn't exactly say that, but I would expect it of them - y'know, considering they are asking terminally ill patients what date they think they are going to die so they can sort out their benefits accordingly

www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/06/terminally-ill-benefit-claimants-asked-when-they-expect-to-die-mp-says

molyholy Thu 09-Jul-15 14:22:00

Proving the rape I mean

FyreFly Thu 09-Jul-15 14:22:26

Ghost I really have no idea. I'm just pointing out that the only person who's said they'd have to prove rape is the journalist, not the official document.

Like I say, everything else at this stage is assumption and speculation.

limitedperiodonly Thu 09-Jul-15 14:23:33

On thinking about it again if you have IVF you choose to do that. And if multiples transpire as a result you choose whether or not to abort individual foetuses in utero.

Seems not at all like a policy that's been scribbled on the back of a fag packet.

scarlets Thu 09-Jul-15 14:25:14

The (rare) cases will be assessed on their merits I guess. I don't suppose that anyone would put themselves through a fake rape prosecution and trial, with the attendant risk of perjury, just for the sake of scamming tax credits. So I guess that if someone has reported a rape that resulted in a third pregnancy that isn't terminated, and the victim has a crime number, they'll get their dosh. It really won't happen often though. However, I think that in the occasional case when it does, it will add a layer of pain and hassle that the woman could well do without, so I hope it's efficient at least.

GinandJag Thu 09-Jul-15 14:27:06

If you were raped, surely you would go to the police before discovering you were pregnant? There would be a paper trail before making a benefits claim.

limitedperiodonly Thu 09-Jul-15 14:28:29

But they won't necessarily be rare. You wouldn't have to go rape prosecution, fake or real. You would just need to say it, surely?

Or should we set up tribunals?

DoraGora Thu 09-Jul-15 14:30:15

Yup, the most important thing about rape is to check your benefit entitlement. Good one, Gina.

Incidentally, they're Tories. They'll trump this with some other scumbag nonsense. That's what Tories do.

Teabagbeforemilk Thu 09-Jul-15 14:31:24

I agree with the 2 children rule tbh, in theory. But really don't get how it's going to work

limitedperiodonly Thu 09-Jul-15 14:33:16

If you were raped, surely you would go to the police before discovering you were pregnant?

GinandJag Many women do not report rapes. And when they do, sometimes they aren't believed.

But even if the police do believe them, do you think it's reasonable to add yet another a layer of bureaucracy to the job of a police officer - testifying in rape tribunals for the purpose of awarding benefits?

Perhaps it's a lucrative new line for a company like ATOS.

DoraGora Thu 09-Jul-15 14:33:44

The tribunal would be a waste of time. This is a request for benefits for the third child. The Tories can just say no. I seem to remember that being dead wasn't a sufficient reason for being unavailable for work, recently.

Dawndonnaagain Thu 09-Jul-15 14:34:50

Yeah, you're always going to tell on your abusive husband aren't you Gina. hmm

DayLillie Thu 09-Jul-15 14:37:14

More policies written on the back of a fag packet/beer mat.

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