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"It should punch you round the face, with a little kiss after", oh you reckon, Jamie Oliver?

(224 Posts)
Katiekitty Thu 29-Nov-12 18:39:16

"It should punch you round the face, with a little kiss after"

Jamie Oliver's BBQ sauce recipe.

Fuck off Jamie.

LRDtheFeministDude Sun 02-Dec-12 11:46:49

I imagine exhalting bollocks would be quite painful actually, kickass, it's true.

Can I say something?

If he'd been talking about someone's husband (or wife) who 'should' punch them then kiss them, he would have been talking literally about domestic violence. Advocating it, in fact (that is what the grammar is doing in the sentence).

If he's talking about sauce, he's using an image. It is not possible to take an image 'literally'. We are all taking it metaphorically. Some of us are offended by the metaphor and others are not. We all know it refers to the sauce, and none of us think it refers literally to DV. However, there is no way to interpret this phrase without understanding that, as a metaphor, it refers to violence followed by 'a little kiss'. This is an image that is strongly suggestive of DV.

KatieSantaPawskitty Sun 02-Dec-12 11:22:29

He was using powerful imagery. It means different things to different people.

To me, the 'punch' and 'kiss' evoked DV.

I know it is unfathomable to a lot of posters here, but also it's very apparent to many as well.

BoneyBackJefferson Sun 02-Dec-12 11:20:37

"4. If you still want to insist on its literal, out-dated meaning, then do you really think that shoving someone in the back side with your foot is the same as punching them in the face? Really? The two are the same? Would you like to volunteer to experience both and see if they both feel the same?"

I would hope that if a partner kicked someone up the arse then it would be taken in the same way as being punched in the face as both would be assault.

Nancy66 Sun 02-Dec-12 11:18:18

yeah - except he was talking about a BBQ sauce not someone's husband.

KatieSantaPawskitty Sun 02-Dec-12 11:16:47

Yep, it's a cookery show.

All the more ignorant of the producers, script writers and JO's PR team to let such a crass statement be bandied about so casually.

Nancy66 Sun 02-Dec-12 11:03:59

it's a cookery show....


jidelgin Sun 02-Dec-12 11:01:53

Didn't he tour the country in one series in a caravan/mobile pub dinner venue rig called The Cock n Cider or somesuch? Bit sleazy n crass!

YouCanBe Sun 02-Dec-12 08:55:37

It was a crass and misguided comment.

CindySherman Sun 02-Dec-12 07:50:17

It's a really nasty, loaded expression and it was written by someone for him to say. It wasn't an off the cuff remark!
I will not become immune to this shit like so many others. Good on you OP for putting this out there. I actually want to write and complain.

seeker Sun 02-Dec-12 07:13:50

I think it's fascinating that even now people think these programmes are just good ol' Jamie chatting away off the top of his head to a single camera like some sort of home movie. There will have been editorial meetings, script meetings, compliance meetings.......And everything he says will have been a conscious decision by someone. And the decision will have been taken that using an image that can only - despite the beat efforts of theProfessionally Unoffended- have been drawn from domestic violence made Jamie look edgy and no end of a lad. Which says something unsettling about how people view domestic violence, doesn't it? And even if it wasn't a conscious decision, the fact that nobody said "Hmm- not sure about that image, Jamie, best not" is just as unsettling.

kickassangel Sun 02-Dec-12 06:21:40

But flimflam it wasn't that JO just chose something out of thin air. It was scripted by writers and media professionals. It wasn't a mistake. It was a deliberate choice of words.

That's the problem.

FlimFlamMerrilyOnHigh Sun 02-Dec-12 04:31:42

Before I was on MN, I wouldn't have thought twice about this metaphor, but now I'm a little better educated on DV etc, I think it was unfortunate and misjudged. But I doubt JO was aware of the connotations, so it was a poor choice of words, but with no malice intended.

Loveweekends10 Sun 02-Dec-12 04:14:10

I watched it. Didn't pay any attention to his description of BBQ sauce ( which I think people are overreacting to) but got wound up by the marketing of uncle bens rice.
Liked his curry recipe though.

kickassangel Sun 02-Dec-12 03:44:59

how would someone 'exalt' a bollock (or two)?

anyway - those of you asking about my name.
1. Points covered earlier about some phrases being so hackneyed they no longer carry any real emotion. The DV ref is very much a current and rl example, which 'kicking ass' hasn't been for a long time.
2. Kicking ass means to boot someone up the back side, or it did a few hundred years ago in the US. by the time Brits started using it, the modern day meaning had already been assigned.
3. Kicking ass now, and for a very long time, has meant verbally trouncing someone. I happily do that if I think someone needs it, although not often.
4. If you still want to insist on its literal, out-dated meaning, then do you really think that shoving someone in the back side with your foot is the same as punching them in the face? Really? The two are the same? Would you like to volunteer to experience both and see if they both feel the same?

And if thinking that DV isn't a light-hearted topic to just throw into prime time TV makes me 'professionally offended' then I will happily own that phrase. It isn't tiring to notice something then point out that it is a crass comment. It seems that noticing something, jumping through some pretty tortuous linguistic and mental hoops, then denying that you haven't, before sticking your head in the sand and pretending that referencing DV on prime time TV ISN'T stupid/crass/offensive etc would involve a whole load more effort. If you are one of the professionally unoffended brigade then you must be exhausted, going round all day looking for things to ignore or defend instead of just seeing it for what it is.

If you've never come across the meaning of the 'PYRTFWALKA' then just give thanks that you are in ignorance of what that phrase means, the kind of life that women live through when caught in relationship like that, the way that even talking about it can be a trigger to those who have experienced it. Don't try shutting people up who want to point it out. Why would you do that? Do you want DV language to become part of everyday life? Do you want us all to become enured to the horrors of DV? Do you want perpetrators to be able to hide behind 'everybody does it - even people on the TV talk about it?' IS that the society that you want? Because however much people have pretended that language doesn't matter - it does.

LRDtheFeministDude Sat 01-Dec-12 21:47:49

I should probably explain I don't literally think the bollock is a symbol of power. sad

I don't even exhalt it, not very often anyhow. sad sad

And I'm not sure the sisterhood is (whisper it) an organization of people with membership badges who have the power to chuck people out.

LRDtheFeministDude Sat 01-Dec-12 21:46:27

I thought I was being humourous and ironic too. sad

GetAllTheThings Sat 01-Dec-12 21:43:05

I think Tiggy is being humourous and ironic LRD.

Which makes your post somewhat also.

LRDtheFeministDude Sat 01-Dec-12 21:24:27

Oh, I'm sorry, was I meant to be exhalting the noble and mighty bollock as the symbol of power it is?

Gosh, my bad! blush

I sure do hope the sisterhood don't chuck me out for that failing.

TiggyD Sat 01-Dec-12 21:21:03

"or somesuch bollocks."?!
You're using bollocks as a synonym for rubbish! It's mostly men who have bollocks! Please don't put men down like that.

And please don't blaspheme.

LRDtheFeministDude Sat 01-Dec-12 21:08:32

I know, it's almost like we're taking things literally, or reading imagery, or somesuch bollocks.

It's a struggle to understand how we can be both reading too much, and too little, into this image, so I conclude, my god, we're damn good at this.

(Alternatively, it's just possible the phrase is ... um ... actually fucking offensive and crass, isn't it?)

featherbag Sat 01-Dec-12 20:27:32

Dear lord, the professionally offended brigade is out in force aren't they?! Domestic violence? From this?! Don't be so fucking ridiculous!

PortoDude Sat 01-Dec-12 20:22:16

I, for one, am not desperate to take offence, I don't believe JO to be a wife beating bastard, I think it is good that people take a stand on misogynist language as we do today with racist/disablist language.

There are many phrases that people innocently quote on MN where they get jumped on from a great height. Please let the misogynisyt stuff be treated with the same disdain.

TiggyD Sat 01-Dec-12 19:56:01

Some people are so desperate to take offence they can read bad in everything.

"going over tiggy's head." Are you calling me short?

LRDtheFeministDude Sat 01-Dec-12 19:38:00

That whoooshing sound?

That's the sound of the point of the thread going over tiggy's head. wink

PortoDude Sat 01-Dec-12 17:12:05

Ah - thank you most kindly! That was just what I was thinking of!

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