Unregistered child, home birth, no medical intervention

[LudoBear]

Just Monday morning ponderings.

I wonder how many children/adults out there have been born at home, no medical intervention throughout pregnancy, baby never registered, home schooled, never went to doctors etc. I wonder how long it would be possible to go without a child ever being legally known anywhere

[ForeverBubblegum]

I think it can go on for a surprisingly long time if their lucky with no illnesses or injuries. I've certainly heard of people getting to adulthood then finding out they can't get a job, or rent a house or open a bank account etc. because officially they don't exist. I think people in this situation can retrospectively register themselves, but I bet their not impressed with the mess their parents leave them in.

[user1493413286]

There’s a whole movement of people doing this; can’t remember what’s it’s called but there’s websites.
I think unless something happens to draw attention to a child then they may never be “known”, the issue then becomes what happens when they want to work or get a passport.
You can get medical treatment for a child (or adult) without them being registered at a surgery so they cold easily get medical treatment that way too.

[Branleuse]

I think in travelling communities its likely more common. Especially new age ones.

[olderthanyouthink]

Don't know but my cousin only found out he had been using the wrong spelling of his name when he was about 30 and applied for a mortgage. His birth had been registered with basically a misspelling and my aunt just started using the correct one without getting it officially corrected.

[TitusPullo]

I’ve wondered this. I am amazed how little interaction we’ve had with anyone official since my baby was born. I did give birth in the hospital and my child is registered, but there is no health visitor service, so no one has seen them since 6 weeks old. I don’t really know what I expected, I was just a bit surprised how much you are left to get on with it really.

[FelicityPike]

I would say they could go cradle to grave.
Might never need a doctor or dentist.
Home schooled.
Cash in hand jobs or inheritance to survive.
No real need for a drivers licence.
No need to have a passport.
Don’t need to get married.
Done...

[AaronPurr]

@TitusPullo

I’ve wondered this. I am amazed how little interaction we’ve had with anyone official since my baby was born. I did give birth in the hospital and my child is registered, but there is no health visitor service, so no one has seen them since 6 weeks old. I don’t really know what I expected, I was just a bit surprised how much you are left to get on with it really.

I have a family member who has said similar. It would be so easy to conceal a child, especially at the minute.

[MumblesAndMutters]

There’s a bit about this in Tara Westover’s memoir Educated - she had to get a passport as a teen to study, but didn’t even know when her birthday was. This was relatively recent.

[BarbaraofSeville]

I suppose as long as they don't need to leave their country of birth or need medical services, they could stay off radar until they needed to work, or have medical treatment? But I don't remember ever being asked for ID in a hospital - what would happen if someone gave a false name and address in A&E for example?

But it would depend on the resources of the parents/carers? If someone has money and access to 'people' they might be able to travel undetected/on a false passport in a private plane, receive no questions asked medical treatment, have their basic needs met etc so don't need paid work, bank account etc?

Or would it be easier somewhere remote, where the person is more likely to be able to live a subsistence lifestyle, growing their own food, bartering, working locally and informally, without background checks etc? People tend to do a variety of jobs locally, based on what needs doing and they could get work from other locals they'd known them all their lives as 'Jack from the house at the top of the lane' rather than asking for ID and NI numbers?

An interesting question. It's one thing we take for granted in the UK, but birth registration is not universal and not existing has consequences affecting access to basic needs like healthcare and education.

www.unicef.org/media/media_71508.html

[bluetongue]

Not the same thing but there was a very sad case in Australia of a little girl and her mother that were murdered after moving interstate. Their murderer continued to claim their benefits and use the mother’s phone to convince her family she was fine but wanted no contact.

People here in Australia often move states to evade authorities, especially when it come to issues of child protection.

[bluetongue]

Forgot to add that the murders were only discovered after a suitcase containing the little girl’s body was dumped on a country highway. Police appealed to the public to help them identify the girl from items found in the suitcase. The grandmother recognised a blanket. She thought they were both still alive

[niceandsimple]

Not quite the same, but my DS was born in Dec. When I went to register his birth I went in on my own and although I had his red book, my discharge papers from the hospital and my ID, as asked requested on the website when booking, I wasn't asked to show anything!
I could have registered a non existent child and then have a fraudulent ID for criminal purposes quite easily.
I only realised they hadn't checked anything once I'd got home....

[EveningOverRooftops]

I was made to use a name that wasn’t on my birth certificate as a child, and didn’t know until I saw the certificate myself, so there’s a good 17/18 yrs roughly where I don’t officially exist. My GCSEs and such are in my old name.

I use my legal birth certificate name now but it did cause headaches trying to change bank accounts to the correct name because there wasn’t a legal change of name iyswim. Thankfully I was able to get a v understanding bank manager who sorted it all out for me but I’m certain it would be much much harder to do that now.

Still, there’s no real record of me from birth until about 17/18 because it was all under my old name

[raskolnikova]

There's an episode of the Radiolab podcast about this, called The Girl Who Doesn't Exist. It's a while since I listened, but I remember it being interesting.

[Love51]

@FelicityPike

I would say they could go cradle to grave.
Might never need a doctor or dentist.
Home schooled.
Cash in hand jobs or inheritance to survive.
No real need for a drivers licence.
No need to have a passport.
Don’t need to get married.
Done...

Wouldn't you need a bank account to access the inheritance?

[FelicityPike]

@Love51 ooos.

[Nith]

@user1493413286

There’s a whole movement of people doing this; can’t remember what’s it’s called but there’s websites.
I think unless something happens to draw attention to a child then they may never be “known”, the issue then becomes what happens when they want to work or get a passport.
You can get medical treatment for a child (or adult) without them being registered at a surgery so they cold easily get medical treatment that way too.

Is that the Freemen of the Land idiots?

[Chewingle]

Unlikely

Chances are the person will want their benefits to reflect the child, which may, depending on their situation but presuming they ate unemployed, equate to £100s a month

[SunshineCake]

Someone I know had a baby and gave them to another child whose baby had died. Baby number two is being brought up as if they were baby number 1. As in really them.

[user1471451327]

It can cause huge problems to have your birth uncertificated (especially if you of colour or cannot show easily your parent is British and you were born in Britain) .It has caused people to be threatened with deportation and not able to work, drive, get benefits, most health care , vote, rent etc due to the hostile (now compliant) environment policy

[misselphaba]

@niceandsimple the hospital notify the registrary office of all births hence why you don't really need to show the paperwork as they can match the details you provide with the details on the notification.

[peak2021]

I wonder if this happens with undocumented and/or illegal migrants who then have children?

[iolaus]

@niceandsimple

Not quite the same, but my DS was born in Dec. When I went to register his birth I went in on my own and although I had his red book, my discharge papers from the hospital and my ID, as asked requested on the website when booking, I wasn't asked to show anything!
I could have registered a non existent child and then have a fraudulent ID for criminal purposes quite easily.
I only realised they hadn't checked anything once I'd got home....

That paperwork you took (and didn't show) a version is already sent to the registry office

If you aren't on the list they have they ring the local midwives to check the information you are providing that a child actually was born on that day at that place/address

Not sure what would happen if you hadn't involved the midwives at all - even those who freebirth (which is a legal choice) tend to ring within 24 hours to say 'I've had the baby'

[dottiedaisee]

@TitusPullo

I’ve wondered this. I am amazed how little interaction we’ve had with anyone official since my baby was born. I did give birth in the hospital and my child is registered, but there is no health visitor service, so no one has seen them since 6 weeks old. I don’t really know what I expected, I was just a bit surprised how much you are left to get on with it really.

Yes I agree. My grandchild has only seen HV twice and is now 15 months...shocking lack of support. I worry about babies who are being neglected or worse !

[Whalewithnosnail]

I have relatives in Canada who forgot to register their child's birth and had a massive headache trying to sort it out when he started school. It wasn't planned or anything they are just idiots, but I'm surprised it wasn't picked up before then he is about 10 now so pretty recent.