Universal Credit

[Charlieandthechocolatecake]

I'm a work coach, still in training (5 weeks left!)

My training is very much centered in the technical and coaching aspects. As somebody that has been on UC for a few months, I feel like I understand what's it's like to be on the other side of the desk. That said, I found full time temporary work before before my current position started so I don't know what it's like to to go through the job centre every week/ 2 weeks.

I'd appreciate it if I could have some honest advice as to what would make me a good week to coach from a customer's point of view?

I've not got any experience with UC or the job centre, but just coming on the thread to say there's a 3 part program on BBCiplayer at the moment about UC if you haven't seen it? It's based in a Job centre.

Having seen the programme I would really say please try and convince claimants not to take the full 'advance' if they can afford not to. One of the saddest things in the programme is seeing how UC pushes people into unaffordable debt because of the 5 week wait.

My son is on UC but hasn't had a work coach that is 'active' because he's very sick & is in the group where they don't expect you to work or do groups.
I have done all of the dealing with the jobcentre and UC staff. I'd say from a human perspective that the most important thing is for you to be genuine and give honest answers & human responses. The problems that I've had are when you know that there is no designated person answering your query, so you're being passed around & not getting proper straightforward answers. Nothing more frustrating (& I'm very able!)

My work coach just kept repeating "we believe the best way out of poverty of through work" low paid dead end work where your childcare costs are more than you earn.
They made it very difficult for me to study and tried to convince me I wouldn't be "allowed". Which was bollocks.
Just don't be like that.

I think people looking to claim UC or are already claiming UC just need respect and to be treated like humans. I haven't claimed it but you never know what the future may hold. I think I read somewhere that the majority of UC claimants are in work or part time work, a lot of single parents and people with moderate to medium health issues that don't make them eligible for PIP but also mean they can't really excel and struggle finding suitable work. Just speak to them like you would if they were a co-worker looking to get up the ladder a bit or a friend trying to navigate their way through the minefield of childcare, health issues etc

Having seen the programme I would really say please try and convince claimants not to take the full 'advance' if they can afford not to. One of the saddest things in the programme is seeing how UC pushes people into unaffordable debt because of the 5 week wait.

Taking the maximum advance did seem to cause an awful lot of problems. I loved the bit where MPs were questioning someone about it, was it a Minister?, anyway they were asking her about them about getting into debt and she kept saying it wasn't a debt it was an advance. George Orwell got it right about newspeak.

I would find it very helpful to be able to ask my work coach questions about UC stuff. Whenever I've tried, for example when I had a question recently about the benefit cap and why so much is reduced from my payment each month, she says, "phone the helpline, I'm a work coach I don't deal with that side".

@fastliving we've covered the advance. I took it myself when I was on UC but only £200 to cover my credit card rather than the full £1600 offered. I still felt it financially

We need to offer the advance but I will do my best to make sure my customers are aware of the long term effect.

Thank you.

@Chocolate50 The difficulty with not being fit for work is that you aren't assigned a work coach. DP has been in the same position although in different circumstances.

The issue with honest answers and human responses is simply that we can't give them. It's not our place to give our opinion. We can only offer appropriate suggestions and even then, they have to be at the right time.

If your son would like to go back to work at some point, I would push for a work coach.

From my experience, they all have different ways of working.

I will definitely take into consideration those speaking on behalf of a customer. Thank you.

Just know what you're talking about. My experience with every single DWP employee is that they give incorrect advice. I was repeatedly told I could not start work from benefits and claim WTC rather than move to UC. I could and I did!

@raspberryk from my understanding, UC isn't designed for those in education and it's a huge frustration of mine. Whilst your work coaches aim is that get you back into work, they need to consider your personal circumstances first. So, for example, you say you want to study to be a midwife, how do you feel about working as a healthcare assistant on the labour ward to get some more experience?

Your work coach shouldn't ever make your goals feel unachievable.

For what it's worth, I hope you are studying or plan to. I would fully support that. It's just the issue of working in the meantime x

@YappityYapYap I agree with everything you've said. Before we were on UC ourselves our income made us very comfortable. I absolutely hated the idea of going to the job centre. I know I'm probably 1 in a million but it wasn't a bad experience at all. My work coach acknowledged my work experience and I never felt judged. She made me aware of the help available and I will make sure to to do what she did for me x

@1forsorrow the advance has always been available on UC. Ultimately, it is a debt although no interest is applied. I watched the documentary and I was frustrated that a particular customer didn't include money taken from her UC due to previous debts that she was well aware of.

Again, I've been on UC myself but I can't imagine for a single minute what living on it long term is like.

@FallingApartNC I'm sorry you've had this experience. Your work coach has access to your UC statement just like you do. You should be able to ask them why this or why that.

Your work coach has access to the information.

I'm struggling with the benefit cap in regards to my own family's situation.

I'll come back to you if I know anything x

I'm in LCWRA so don't have a work coach, but when I first started, until my LCWRA was applied, I STILL had to go into job centre and see a work coach and 'search for work' as until they decided if I was disabled, then I was to be treated like any other job hunter apparently. I'm very very clearly unable to work! (Apparently this applies to everyone, even paraplegics! For those weeks, sometimes months, you're a job hunter, even if you can't speak or move!)
Anyway, my work coach was uninterested in my very apparent indignation, shock and upset at being made to apply for jobs I knew (& she knew) I couldn't possibly do.
Gotta do it. UC says so.

Be nice. Be empathetic. Be on the claimant's side and most importantly - please don't assume that everyone is a lazy scrounger!

I claimed UC for a bit last year. But I was in work, just part-time. So I didn't have much contact with my work coach. Most months I was getting under £100 from UC anyway.

I'd say though it's simple. Don't be a dick. Don't sanction people for bullshit reasons - like the claimant who got their benefits stopped for missing a Jobcentre appointment because they were at a fucking job interview.

Not personally affected by this but having watched todays Victoria Derbyshire the guy from Mind said people were made to attend JC appointments however ill they were.

With the spread of the Coronavirus is it a good idea to threaten or apply a sanction if someone says they are too ill to attend. Not having a go but have you been told the protocol on this?

Let me tell you a long - but invaluable story OP...

Back in 2016, when I was claiming ESA (Support) PIP and received the Severe Disability Premium, I decided I wanted to try working again.

Now as you may or may not know, ESA offers/offered what's called a 'Rapid re-claim' which means if working doesn't work out (ie you can't do it/damages your health etc) then if you're within 90 days of closing your ESA claim, then you can return to your previous level of Benefit, no questions asked. No re-assessment.
So just to make sure, I called ESA. "Yep! Absolutely! You can do a RR if within 90 days etc"

Yay! So off ESA & SDP I came (remained on PIP of course as that's not means tested).

I failed. Tried two jobs and without going into detail I was in agony. Gave it my best shot. I could barely function, let alone look after DC.

So after 3 weeks I called ESA....................

"I'm sorry madam, as you're in an area where all new claims for benefits must be UC, you cannot return to ESA (Note the failure to mention New Style ESA)" "Nope, you cannot do a Rapid Reclaim, I'm sorry. You'll need to claim UC.



2/2



I permanently lost my transitional protection for when I would naturally have migrated over to UC (OP will know what I mean by this, tricky to explain!), my SDP and had to go through the new claims process with universal credit.

I have not had to hand in a 'sick note' since 2002. Yet there I was, at the doctors taking up their time asking for a note to prove I was unfit for work when I've been in ESA Support for (at that point) 14 years.....

It ended up taking UC 7 months to determine I was unfit for any work or work related activity (LCWRA) AND that was done without an assessment in the end!

So for 7 months I was on the very basic rate of UC (and had PIP too thank god) and could barely afford to eat. Was at the food bank every chance I could get and as I pointed out above - permanently lost SDP as of course it was scrapped for UC.

All of this because the woman I spoke to at ESA got her facts wrong and incorrectly assured me I could do a Rapid Reclaim in the event I couldn't continue with working within 90 days of leaving ESA - Whilst in a new claims area for UC.

The emotional & financial damage that woman's incompetence caused, not just to me but to my DC also, is immeasurable. She should've asked me my post code and checked to see if I was in a UC new claims area before answering my initial enquiry about rapid reclaims. Something so simple that presumably she thought meant bugger all - nearly destroyed a year of my life and affected my DC tremendously (I won't say how).

BUT

She wasn't the only one who gave incorrect advice....

As I mentioned above, when I called to do a ' Rapid Reclaim' (or so I thought!), the guy I spoke to who, quite joyfully, informed me how I couldn't reclaim ESA, that I'd need to claim UC etc etc, was actually incorrect also!!!!!!

OP you'll already know exactly what I'm about to say, but for those who don't: He should've advised me to claim what is called 'New Style ESA' which would actually have meant I could keep my SDP and in a sense, go back to a similar position as I was previously; although I would likely have had to be reassessed as it was technically, another benefit.

However, I couldn't by the time this was discovered, as I was by this time, well into my new claim for UC....

Anyway - what a Royal fuck up!

Two royal fuck ups that hugely affected us.

The reason I've shared all this is (hopefully without sounding patronising or condescending!) to point out how much the seemingly simple advice you give, can actually snowball.....

Thank god for the amazing lady at the C.A.B who was actually initially involved in the creation of UC (who then left and joined the CAB to help campaign against it's rushed implementation!!!!) and has written several reports on it. She even got me on telly to share what happened and to essentially warn others of the hidden risks involved.

Anyway, I thought my experience may help you OP.
Even though I know that as a work coach, you won't generally be dealing the Disability side of things; as you'll know, as I said in my previous post, those disabled people who are waiting for their assessments etc (unless it's changed since 2016?) will have to see you 🙄 So could be useful to know??

You can't do a 'good' job because the entire system is set up to facilitate a bad experience for the people claiming universal credit.

Watch the BBC documentary, it's very good.

Your attitude of working for experience is similar to the work coach and doesn't work, college courses to get the requirements for uni are classed as full time. How could anyone with say a 2yo and a 5yo work on top of that? Midwifery, nursing etc are all full time with placements which mirror your supervisors shift pattern, you I have no time for working as well.
For what it's worth you can study an access course and get full UC if you have dependents and then get some top up UC when you go to uni which makes up the shortfall between your loan and living costs.
My work coach and various other contacts said I couldn't do it, it's only when I wrote to them with their own legal guidance pointed out saying I could that it worked out.
I am in my second year of uni thank you, and with a new partner so I can't claim anything this year anyway.
But it makes me sad that they can't see the benefit of supporting someone through studies in the short term will make them completely independent of benefits in the long term.
Scenarios 1 I get a minimum wage job, uc top up my wages and pay 70 odd percent of my childcare- more than they paid me when I was staying at home not working and studying. They would do that for the next 16 years and then I would still be in crap work woth no prospects and still be in poverty, more so as I'd have no two support once my kids turned 18.
Scenario 2, I get full UC for one year, and some UC for 3 years whilst studying.
Year 4 I get a graduate job at say 28 or 30k and my childcare costs are somewhat lower due to the children being in full time school whatever. UC pay me nothing as I am self sufficient, my wages have the potential to rise and I won't be in a pickle when my dependent leave.
But my work coach couldn't even acknowledge the facts.

@Charlieandthechocolatecake wow well unfortunately you are dealing with human beings and if you are saying that you can't respond in a human or genuine way (this is not to say give personal opinions I didn't say that...) I meant that you need empathy and to be transparent with your responses, you do need to get up alongside your clients, if you can't do this due to the politics of the service then I would suggest that this is why the service has massively failed, and as someone who works for them you should be pushing for change.

...and you did ask for opinions so...if you don't want to hear about them and how you can learn about it please don't ask as its just exactly the sort of thing that pisses people off

@Chocolate50 What are you talking about? OP hasn't given any impression that she doesn't want to hear anything at all??? She's been very open and friendly in fact

@HavenDilemma actually I thought that there was a defensive know it all edge to OPs response to me, what's the point in asking for advice when you're just going to either ignore or just give unwelcome & unwanted advice back. Maybe I misread

...sorry don't know what happened there...
Cont...
But that's how it came over...