Mums in the arts: writing, visual arts, etc

[expatkat]

I feel like there's a special set of problems that women who work out of the home don't encounter in the same way we do

Often we work at home, isolated, andeven if you can afford, say, a nanny or childminder to watch the children for a few hours, when the children are at home they often assume you are availableeven if you've made it clear that you're not--and they feel extra abandoment when, say, you ask them to leave so you can continue working.

Similarly, my actor friend spent a whole year when she pretty much never put her DD to bed because she had West End performances every night. This was incredibly hard for her DD

My DS (8) is proud that I've published a book and have another on the way, and that I do journalism/criticism too. I get him involved when I can--he is honest if something I've written is rubbish (and is always right!)

But in another way I think children can sense they come "second" to another passion/calling. Which is sadly the case for me right now because my career is just beginning to pick up, and I do put them second sometimes.

It's a huge source of guilt.

I had children because I like children very much, and wanted them badly. I thought I'd easily be able to fit my writing around their school days, etc, but in a way its been the opposite. A structured daily corporate/office job works better IMO--or by the sounds of it, it does.

Oh yes--the other difficulty of being a writer, is that you're out a lot in the evenings. . .lots parties/readings/events, opportunities to hang out with other writers, and lessen the isolation one feels. Also, if you're a creative writer, traveling around giving readings is a source of income.

Are there any other professional writers on here who struggle with ambivalence and MAJOR GUILT about the way they are handling motherhood?

[motherinferior]

Well, I've churned. It was essentially an interview I did this morning, though, so not what you might call rocket science. It's gone off. Along with last week's churning.

[anorak]

You know MI it isn't really churning. You do yourself a disservice.

It's being professional.

[hatwoman]

what an interesting thread. I hope I am allowed to interlope. [expatkat are you medea? if you are, hello, if not then mn has at least two published poets, how lovely]

I am neither a writer (though I write a lot, and love it) nor do I, officially, work at home. However I have a job to which I have a very intense emotional attachment and I absolutely relate to the idea of feeling guilty about that. I also have a job where I can now log in at home. This, combined with my emotional attachment, has made dividing paid work (Mon, Tue, Wed in the office) and the rest of my life into neat seperate chunks virtually impossible. I also took on extra work - lecturing - which was, from one way of looking at it, totally selfish. I did it for (slightly embarrassed to say this but I'll be honest) kudos and enjoyment. I also did it, I hope, to a reasonable standard - ie lots of evenings doing arguably "unnecessary" (whatever that means) work.

In 2 months' time things could get worse - I have resigned and will be going self-employed. In my mind I will work 9-3 (without coming on mn) and have lovely afternoons and tea times with dds. the days I am busy dh (also shortly to be self-employed) will not be busy and will pick them up from school. and we'll have family meals every day. yes??? and our work will naturally fall off in the school holidays. our busy periods will never co-incide. and we will never argue over the laptop...

[mazzystar]

I too feel like a bit of a ligger on this thread, but hey, before I had kids ligging was one of the things I did best.

I've worked in the visual arts as a curator for fifteen years, and having faced the impossibility of returning to my 70 hour a week gallery job am attempting to do some freelance work for sanity-preservation as much as anything else. My kids are teeny - one and three - so I find it all massively conflicting at the moment.

The problem with these kind of jobs is they don't seem to be worth doing unless you can really put your whole self into them. But there are now huge - and maybe more valid - claims on my time and energy.....

[anorak]

mazzystar you've put your finger on it, when you said 'more valid claims on my time and energy'. That's the crux of it - our feeling that our children's claim on our time and energy is more valid than our work.

Those who work outside the home wouldn't ever have be faced with that conflict.

[MonkeybirdisboredWITHbuns]

sorry anorak but I don't think that's true - I have conflict about going to work in just the same way.

isn't it some combination of working at home but trying to juggle things rather than carving out child-free time; with the creative types of work which require lots of time and emotional energy and peace and quiet and sometimes - bleurgh! - a bit of the old muse; with the deadlines and other pressures; with the notion of blending of work with a vocation...

It's more complex than working at home I think...

[UnquietDad]

Juggling a creative career with fatherhood is equally hard. Some might say harder, because as well as "time guilt" there is the "provider" expectation, and very few creative careers pay anything better than jack shit.

(I have a not-very-close-friend who is deputy director of "Creative City" in our city and earns a packet, far more than any artist or writer I know... I do wonder what the hell, if anything, they have to do with being creative... I get the impression it's just suits sitting and talking.)

[MonkeybirdisboredWITHbuns]

Oh god UD, I hope you don't live near me where the sum total of the 'creative city' seemed to be, erm, some new paving stone tiles depicting local, er, themes.

Radical.

[UnquietDad]

tbh I don't know what they do, which is pretty damning in itself - shows how much of an effort they make to reach out to the actual "creative" community.

[wilbur]

This is v interesting as I am just wrestling with all this myself. I have put my writing career on hold for the last few years as I had ds2 (now 2.5) and 2 other children to look after, and also dh and I had decided to throw our all into getting to a point where we were living in a house where we could stay forever. We have, via various refurbs and building projects that have sucked my life into a black hole lined with raw plaster, now done this, and I am looking to get back to more of a career. I love writing and think I am reasonably good at it, but I do have a problem with the guilt of not earning while I write spec stuff, and also being around the children but not actually looking after them on the days I am writing. I also grapple with childhood issues about my mother's career (she was an advertising copywriter in New York and London during from 60s to 80s). She lived for her work, it was long hours and no flexibility in those days, and she was often typing away at weekends and in evenings. I knew she loved me and my sister, but she was certainly not "there" even when she was there, iyswim. So I am trying to find a way to balance having time to be creative and immerse myself away from the pull of family life, and then when I am with my kids to be there 100%. Can it be done?

[mazzystar]

I think there is also an issue for me with the work - and the associated stuff around it, being - well - pleasurable and enjoyable, and satisfying, compared to some other kinds of work being more clearly less "fun" than being with the family.

My DH is an architect, which is his grand passion in life, but he too finds that the pull of the family means he is not prepared/able to devote himself to it in the way that he could before we had the children, and consequently finds his work less satisfying than before.

[foxinsocks]

dh is a writer/journalist. I can sympathise with what expatkat says about the evening stuff. Dh could go out every night if he wished - and a lot of the functions/occasions are important for contact building. He also starts late and finishes late and works weekends which worked well when I wasn't working but now that we are both full time, it means there are some weeks where the only time we are together is between the hours of 1am and 6am!

I'm not sure about the guilt he feels tbh. I think he feels sad we don't get as much time as others together as a family but the children know that he loves what he does and is passionate about it and dd especially is enthused by his job and loves talking about it (like ds does with mine).

He sees the kids every morning (if he is not away on a trip), I see them every night.

I would love it if he went into writing books full time, in fact, I'd probably encourage him to go to one of those writer's retreats but I don't think he'd go!

[Blu]

Expatkat - I was wondering where you were!
You were on poetry a residency in the U.S when i first joined MN, I think.

I run a theatre and the evening and weekend work is a nightmare, except that it gives me lots of flexibility to be around for school events or do the school pick-up a couple of times a week.

DP works in the arts too, and also has lots of evening events, so our diary checks are tetchy, protracted affairs as we horsetrade one 'I HAVE to be out that night' for another. It also means that all our babysitting opportunities get used up for work cover, not nights out.

AND it means we are both on crap salaries with no pensions etc.

[Blu]

mazzystar - I feel a bit like your husband, too.

[expatkat]

hi everyone, yes I've had incarnations: "Medea," "Neighbour," but am back to my original identity, despite the constant confusion with expatinscotland.

I'm on another residency now, Blu, this one for only 2 weeks, which I think brought the guilty feelings back, hence starting the thread.
MI, you ARE a proper writer don't be daft. Because Journalism (unlike poetry) IS considered work. In fact I'm so much more comfortable when I say I'm a critic and lecturer. I agree it's best when small children are PHYSICALLY out of the house. Otherwise they think "mummy is ignoring me again!"

Ingles, I identify with having to go away at the drop of the hat.. .so awful! I'm in tears of guilt being away from them for 2 weeks right now, so I'm working my arse off so at least the time is well spent.

Lovely to chat with you all. x

[motherinferior]

I spotted you as Neighbour!

Come and see me one of these Fridays?
x

[expatkat]

After reviewing 2 poetry collections by mothers in the past two days, both of whom address this subject, I'm convinced our feelings of guilt are rampant.

I may have said this in an earlier post, but I believe, really, you make a choice between your art and your children, whereas in more conventional careers you can more comfortably have both. I think the vocational aspect of being a professional artist (of whatever kind) is a big problem where kids are concerned. I have no doubt my kids will be at screwed up by their mother not always putting them first, not to mention by my various mental health issues (which I try to hide from them as much as possible).

I suppose this is why so may writers and artists make the choice not to have children.

I wonder, for example, about Zadie Smith and her poet/novelist husband. Will they have children? Jonathan Saffron Foer and his wife Nicole Krauss (2 major young novelists in the US, Nicole having been shortlisted for the Orange Prize a couple of years ago) have recently had a child. I wonder how it will work for them, especially Nicole. Will it slow her down? (She being someone who, unlike me, matters in the literally world.) And if it doesn't, will her child suffer?

There was an American anthology of essays by writer-mothers a few years ago. One was called "Closing The Door On Motherhood." The author described the difficulty and guilt of literally closing the door on her children when she went into her office/bedroom to write.

But on the other hand, maybe our children will be proud of us. It may not all be gloom and doom. My friend Katie, a writer, had a prolific noveslist for a mother. Katie describes her mother scribbling on the supermarket check-out line, with 3 very young daughters in tow. She views her with awe, not resentment.

[MarshaBrady]

I think, ExpatKat, that as a poet you are probably closely aligned to the very artistic - in terms of temperament. By this I mean the temperament which allows you to produce good work. Poetry is (not that I have ever written it) but I imagine it to be highly personal - in a way that means you need to give something of yourself when you write. Which means you might need to feel whole and centred to do it - I should say all this for me really - I'm not sure how you feel, sorry if wrong!

But, as an artist, I can relate to your feelings of ambivalence.

I can also say nearly all my contemporaries are SOLELY dedicated to their work, and do not do much else but concentrate on that and develop. The way I used to be really. When I think about this it makes me feel a bit ill and nervous. So I try not to. Fortunately so far, my career is still going well (touch wood) - as nebulous as art careers can be, I am grateful for this.But I find it very very tiring at times, to keep switching from family life to periods of concentration.

Anyway what I would say to you is, keep going, the thing about an art or writing career is that it is rarely static and as it grows and picks up you may just find going with the flow and keeping your children as close as you can, whilst doing the best work you can.

Plus - one piece of practical advice - pay for childcare, I mean if they are not at school, not sure how old your dc are. Time that you can focus on work only.

Also I think your children will be and are very proud of you too, so hopefully that can diminish the guilt a little.

[expatkat]

I love your name, MarshaBrady, and thanks for that encouraging post.

[expatkat]

hahahaha MI, the detective! Would love to come round, and will do, when I'm back in the the UK and the Nunhead shifts resume. I hope all is going well at work?

Meant to say MarshaBrady: well done on your successes because you're in a helluva difficult field; not too many artists I know have children. That said: a painter-mum at my son's school, like you, is doing very well, with works in Saatchi's collection etc. . .and with 3 children! But some of her contemporaries feel her work isn't going at full steam, not like it was pre-children. (Oh dear, I hope it's not you! ) But I'm dead impressed with you both.

[MarshaBrady]

Haha no not me, I've only one pre-school ds - another source of ambivalence and guilt, the idea of having more children!. So she's doing very well to have 3 and painting career.

Thanks too, for encouragement. Btw I don't know any published poets. Damn great too I might add - to be published I mean - don't forget to enjoy it and be proud of your achievements, admist the mixed feelings.

[MarshaBrady]

Meant to put a at end of that, bit serious!

[expatkat]

Wow: big life changes or you, Hat. And did I read on some thread that you're expecting another baby?

Yes, I'd imagine the "emotional attachment" to your soon-to-be-ex-job is prob similar to what the rest of us are talking about. x

[oregonianabroad]

Hello, can I join you?

I am an academic and am doing a PT MA in Creative Writing (mainly as an excerise to justify hours spent writing -- at least now I can say I have an assignment).

Nevertheless, all is not going to plan, and in addition to feelings of guilt I can add utter exhaustion, frustration, and a slightly schitzophrenic sense of being split in many directions.

[barbarianoftheuniverse]

Can I join in I have been writing since ds(now 15) was 1. dd was born 3 years in. It has been brilliant being always at home for them when they are ill etc. but holidays are very difficult. Like you Anorak, I read everything aloud and can only really work in an emptish house. But I never feel I am doing either job properly. One of my (childless) editors once told me rather reproachfully that Enid Blyton shut her kids up in a nice airy cupboard and got on with it and I actually found myself considering the cupboards...