calling all solicitor mummies!

[Laffytaffyx]

HI

Wondered if you could help? I completed a law llb 7 years ago. Now I'm a secondary school teacher and I would like to leave the profession to become a solicitor. Am I mad?

I am able to fund my lpc however the training contract looks even more of a minefield then it was back then! What do you think my chances are? I'd have to brush up on my legal knowledge but the fact I'm a career changer will that put me at disadvantage? Also with a lo nearing a year old is it do able? Would appreciate your experiences any experience or advice.

Thanks!

[Living]

And my guess is that public sector trainees outside of London are on around 14k. At least that's what my previous employer was offering in 2006 and I doubt it's gone up much. No idea on NQ salaries but I'm guessing it'd take a while until you were matching a teacher at around 6 years PQE. Happy to be wrong!

[MissBeehiving]

We pay our trainees £17k in the public sector (outside London) - the trainee minimum salary was dispensed with earlier in the year. In the public sector IME the trainee salaries are inflated in comparison with jobs needing PQE. A senior lawyer (5 years PQE +) outside London isn't on much more than £35-40k.

[atticusclaw]

At my last firm (outside of London) the trainees were on 18k, NQ about 23. My 4 year PQE assistant was on about £32k. Partners (without employment rights) started at around £65k drawings.

At large multinational law firm before that Partners started at around £80k. Qualified lawyers started at around £30ish from memory.

[Living]

I think salaries may have gone up a bit Atticus. My firm is v similar to your multinational (if not the same one!). NQ salaries outside of London are 37k (may be higher in Leeds as I'm not all offices pay NQs the same)

[Living]

Also glad to hear that public sector trainee salaries seem to have gone up not down with the removal of the law society minimum!

[atticusclaw]

May well be the case Living (I suspect it might be the same firm) I left a few years ago now!

[Folklaw80]

Another lawyer here.

To be honest OP with your academics I think you might struggle to get a training contract. Sorry.

However you might be lucky - I do know a couple of City lawyers who don't have the best academics - but they stand out from the crowd for other reasons. So you have to be honest with yourself as to whether you have the 'X Factor' required to get a training contract. See how you get on with vacation scheme applications as that will give you an idea as to whether you are the kind of person law firms are looking for.

I suppose it depends if you are in a financial position to risk doing the LPC knowing that it may or may not lead to actually becoming a solicitor. I am not saying don't do it, I am just saying if you decide to do it you should do it with your eyes wide open and be fully aware that there is a very real possibility that you may not get a training contract at the end of it.

Then there is the risk that even if you do get a TC and qualify, you might not like actually being a lawyer. I am in my 30s and my female lawyer friends are queuing up to leave the profession as it is just so incompatible with family life now they are starting to have kids.

Yes I know teaching can be hard work (I have family who are teachers) and yes teachers do have to work outside of school hours, but as others have pointed out at least teachers can fit in their marking and planning etc around family life - ie. leave school at 5pm, pick up kids from childcare, feed, bath and put kids to bed then do the marking and planning at 8pm or on the weekends.

When you are a lawyer (especially a trainee/junior lawyer) you are at the mercy of your boss / the clients. So if your boss/the client wants a document drafted at 5pm it has to be done there and then, it is simply not acceptable to say you will do it at 8pm after you have picked up your kids and put them to bed. Unfortunately that is just the culture in large/medium law firms.

As a trainee/junior lawyer (up to about 6 years PQE) I would go into work in the morning not knowing whether I would be leaving the office at 6pm / 8pm / 10pm / midnight or later. The unpredictability was worse than the long hours.

Also, depending on what area of law you qualify into, there can be lots of 'extra-curricular' stuff you are expected to do like marketing / client entertainment. I was often out with clients until 11pm on a week night.

And as others have said, unless you are in a large firm, the money is not as good as many people like to think.

Good luck whatever you decide.

[mandy214]

OP, if you're still considering it, here is my view.

I joined the Leeds office of a multi office commercial firm when I qualified. I have worked in Leeds for 12+ years, from my "young free and single" days, to now having 3 children. I am in a contentious sector, and agree that it is very unpredictable, can be long hours but rewarding on lots of levels. I do found it intellectually challenging.

I managed to work part time after I went back after maternity leave, and generally left the office at a reasonable time on all but one of my days, but I was at my desk for 7.15/7.30 each morning (never saw the children awake in a morning on my work days) and had one night where I stayed until about 10pm each week (as my H could collect the children and I caught up at work). I was employed for 21 hours - but probably did 35-40. I was however sidelined as soon as I went part time, I wasn't promoted for 7 years (although I was handling big cases). Apparently if you work 3 days, even if you're doing the same % of extra hours, BD events etc as your colleagues, you have clients calling you on the other days, you do telephone Court hearings from home with 2 toddlers shut in the lounge in front of the TV with a packet of chocolate buttons to keep them quiet for 10 mins you're "not committed". I think if you have any vision of making it to senior associate / director / partner, you will need to work full time.

I disagree with some of the others that your academics won't get you into commercial firm (I did have some involvement with recruitment). I think my firm anyway was a lot more savvy with applicants than just going on grades or which uni you went to. Don't get me wrong, I am sure that there are still firms out there who are quite rigid with their recruitment requirements, but I think my experience is that people are looking for something "extra". They want someone who is down to earth, able to relate to clients, business-minded. Certainly when I first started getting involved with recruitment I was told to put anyone with a 1st in the bin (Yorkshire partner said he wanted people who had experienced life at uni rather than sat in the library for 3 years!).

Having said that, its not a career I would have chosen with hindsight unless you have a very good support network. As everyone else has said, it is very difficult to get a foot in the door and in many ways, it is still who you know and not what you know. I've been a mentor at Leeds Met to students on the LPC and there are only a handful of training contracts to go round. Most LPC graduates are now applying for paralegal positions (very poorly paid) just to be doing something related.

Even when you qualify, it is also not very well paid, compared to equivalent professions, and very stressful. The implications of missing a deadline for instance are massive and I don't think you get that in many other professions.

I'm not saying don't do it, but do your research, try to get some voluntary experience if you can't get a placement, pull any strings you possibly can to get any access to a law firm that you can and go into the decision with your eyes open. Good luck!

[369thegoosedrankwine]

Not mad but be clear on your reasons for doing it.

Most legal jobs are about making money by selling expert advice. The vocation bit comes secondary no matter what you want to do.

I have a good work life balance, I work 4 days but two days of the week I leave at 6 am and get back at 6.30 pm. I also work on my day off as it is expected I will respond to emails. But, I can work from home, leave if dc's have a play or parents evening for example but that is only because I am established and it has taken me 12 years to get to this point. Being a trainee with young dc's would be v.difficult.

I have friends who are teachers and I appreciate that it isn't an easy job but I know that I work longer hours and have far less real time off.

Don't be put off by being in Leeds though, I have worked in 4 'regions' and most specialisms are practised regionally, you don't have to be in London.

[Laffytaffyx]

Hi all

Just wanted to update you on what I did.
I wasn't receiving enough support in my current work place and went on to apply for another school in the neighbouring town.
I got an interview and got the job. The school is fantastic and I can't wait to start! Would like to thank you all for your comments as unlike before, I'm confident that I've made the right decision.
Thanks again!