Flippin fed-up, annoyed and disliking mothers

[tamula]

Long story short, I'm an NNEB (relevant nanny/nursery-nurse training) qualified, CRB (enhanced police check) first aid and lifesavers, non-smoker, driver,13 yrs childcare experience, twins, newborns, 0-13 age range, disabled or whatever is p/c to call it these days.

Had my dd in April, left studying Midwifery in uni to be a mum for the first time. Have no regrets.

But for gods sake why am I being penalsied by other women (mothers), we all moan about how we're pooh-poohed about our jobs as majority sole charge care giver to our children, yet because i have my own child i'm expected to be a teenager again and live on pennies after working a 10-12 day just because i have to take my dd with me, i am a professional person, i dont give more time or attention to my dd, i'm actually quite pleased that she has to share me, as she's with me every waking moment, i have no family, parents decesed and my dp parents are in another country, i'm not complaining but its so difficult.

Most mothers simply wont have anyone with their own child, or the ones that will, want to pay you the same as the 13 year old babysitter.

I'm so cheesed off with it, cant afford to leave her with anyone, cant seem to take her with me, shall i just crawl under a rock?

New mothers are the bloody worst, wait til they have had 2 and 3 they'll blooming leave the children with the postman.

Arrrrgh

[lexiemum]

I'd have you look after my two and welcome your lo and pay you properly.

[Cristina7]

Hi Tamula. I had DS in a nanny-share with another child. I used to pay our nanny £7 an hour when she only looked after DS. When she started with the other child too she got £10 an hour for both, £5 each, so less per child, not double for two. Perhaps this is what's going on in other people's minds, they deduct some of the payment as if you had to pay for your own. Sorry you're finding it difficult.

[tamula]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for replying.

I can see why people want to pay less and I have taken a huge paycut, although I dont see why I should, I have agreed that I will take less, but even thats not good enough for most, I cant be paid half or how will I live?!!

Nannying is a very private and personal thing, each case has to be taken on its merit,paying a nanny £5 each so she gets £10 is a common idea and it works, but in my situation its just not doable, I cant pay myself the other £5.

£5 per hour is minimum wage, so I studied and have all this experience to be paid the same as the non-english speaking cleaner?! Its actually quite offensive I believe it stems back to the age old belief that childcare is womens work so lets undermine it and pay them chips, the childcare provision in this country is just pants, if the cost was subsidised by the gov, both parents and childcare providers would be in a better place, they are doing this approval scheme, but the cost is met by the nanny or parents, it should be free to make it easier for all parties.

okay enough ranting!

[MaggieT]

I do see your point, but also see the other side too. If you bring your dd then you can only give 50% of your time to the other child, so why should you expect to be paid as if giving 100% Also most workig mothers pay to leave their children when they go to work, so logic says this reduction in your pay is as if you are paying for childcare IYSMIM. I'm not trying to be contentious, only see it from both sides.

[chickaboo]

I actually want someone with their own child to be our nanny as we think this would be good for our 8 month old to have another young child around her which would also mean any activities the nanny planned would be suitable for both children. We thought about nanny share but as we want another child(we already have 2) thought that may not work so well. We want someone to stay with us for a long time but we only need someone 2 days a week.

I can see how infuriating it must be for you, but on the other hand I can't think of any other profession where you could take your child to work with you and also if you did you would be in a better position than most working mums because

a)you have no childcare costs to eat into your hourly wage
b) you don't have to leave your child everytime you go to work which believe me is going to be heart breaking.

You sound just what we would be looking for, all the experience and a baby a similar age and if a lot of people really thought about it, it can be a perfect solution. I have to admit though, I would want to pay slightly less (sorry) for a nanny with child just like I would for a nanny share but I wouldn't expect to pay half and yes you do deserve more than the minimum wage.

I hope things work out for you

[edam]

I do see why you are frustrated. And I do think 50 per cent reduction is OTT. Off the top of my head I'd think more along the lines of 20 per cent because you are still doing the job and taking on a lot of responsiblity. You won't be doing only half a job.

How much do childminders in your area charge? More than £5 an hour, I hope. Maybe that could be an argument for potential employers?

Also, if any of the parents earn under tax credit limit (which is about £57k) they can pay you under the childcare vouchers scheme, which will save them money (effectively your wage is free of tax and NI for them as employers). So they will be getting a good deal in the first place.

[uwila]

As an employer of a nanny I think a sizable pay cut is perfectly fair. I think 20% is too low, but 50% is too high. I gather you are live-out.

I think that the usual set-up is that each parent expects to pay less than if you were a nanny to only their child, but as the nanny has to deal with two sets of bosses (in this case you are one of the bosses as the nanny share is effectively with you) she would expect to make a bit more. So, I think 60% of your previous pay is probably fair, especially if they are going to be providing food for your baby. And who is provides things like the double buggy (assuming you are looking after another baby)? Wear and tear to there house? Let's face it, there may be times when your baby pukes on their carpet. They have to account for that.

Keep in mind, also, that a lot of new mums go back to work and have a lot less than 40% of their pay left over after childcare.

[mandieb]

I have had three good nanny jobs since my son was born .First one had three kids plus mine and the day I went back to work she told me she was pregnant so 5 in all . They paid the going rate for Weybridge Surrey £300 a week take home They moved after 2 years so I couldnt work for them any more I loved that job . Second job was 2 boys plus mine .Stayed there 18 months as she got made redundant She got a reduction as she was a single parent and was also lovely but that was £230 a week for 4 days .And the last job was for three years to a great couple with one child so I only worked after school and holidays ,They paid £350 a week.I always had my son with me in all my jobs ,I am not the usual nanny I do any job that is necessary to make the home run smoothly for the children and the parents whatever that may be . I am now working as a TA and bloody skint on £50 a week but this is just to say the jobs are out there and if they dont want you ,you certainly dont want them . As a final not in this long winded reply all my bosses have said they would always now employ a nanny with her own child after having me and seeing that it can work because being a mother myself I actually get how they are feeling .

[Klauz33]

How many kids do you want to look after - i think if you are looking for one baby/kid then you are potentially going to have problems. As you say, most first time mums are very precious. IME, nannies want one baby or kid if they have a choice so those jobs are in demand.

As other posters have said nannies cost a lot of money - mine used to cost £24k a year, money which had already been taxed by the exchequer. So on a £69K a year salary I used to get £1200 a month after childcare and that doesn't include travel, and all the other myriad expenses of working. Oh yes, and I had to not see my children from 8am to 6pm every day. And our nanny got paid holidays, sickpay and we had to cover that, birthday pressies and a £200 christmas bonus.

So don't be too hard on the mums, 50% after tax is a lot better deal than most working mums. You would have to be earning well over £70K to achieve that.

Anyway good luck with your search.

[bluebear]

I would say the problem is you are 'competing' against nannies who are just as qualified etc as you are..but don't have their own baby coming to work with them...

I'm employing a nanny who is bringing her own child - I am paying her 70% of the 'going rate' when she is looking after my children plus hers..The reduction is for many reasons, one of which is that with her own baby here she will not be giving my dd as much 1-2-1 attention as a nanny without her own baby, also there is wear and tear on the house, I am providing lots of baby equipment, double buggy etc, and food for her baby as well as for herself. It also limits some of the activities that dd would otherwise do as I don't want her ds to feel left out.
In fact, after I have paid tax on my income and her salary I will have less money to spend each month than she does as she doesn't have to pay childcare.

We have also arranged to nanny-share her a few days a week, so for those days her baby will be looked after by her family and she will look after mine and someone elses and be paid a lot more for those days.

I agree with mandieb - there are probably jobs out there where the presence of your baby will not be a problem and your pay will not suffer..it's finding them that's difficult!

[VeniVidiVickiQV]

It sucks. You are right. Welcome to the world of us working mothers

[tigermoth]

tamula, I think you've been given some good advice.

Do you know how much local childminders charge to look after babies? You need to know this IMO, then look at your old rates (before you had a baby). Then deduct the cost of childminding from your old rates to determine what your new rate should be.

If you tell potential employers that you have come to your new rates by doing this calculation, that's would seem fair and logical to me.

[tamula]

Thank-you for your all your replies

Im my heyday I used to earn up to £100 per day, I am willing to be paid £60 or £70 per day. Not £55 and under.

My baby eats my food which i make at home, i also eat my own food from home.

I have bought a double buggy.

I would argue that at least women in other professions can leave their child, they may bring home 40 percent, they may miss them and they may loathe leaving them but they have a job! They have that choice.

In my line of work, I am finding it difficult to even get a job, I have worked with children all my life, so short of re-training (which isnt an option) I find myself stuck between a rock and a hard place. I cant pay for childcare if I dont have the money and as a nanny its like roobing peter to pay paul!!

"Ah yes, sweetie, mummy has to leave you behind 7am-7pm as she has to go look after someone elses sweetie!"
I'd rather go hungry and wear shoes with holes in then do that!!

Someone posted "welcome to the world of working mothers" Too right!

(Once I get a job, that is!)

[bossykate]

tamula

i think it needs saying again, sorry.

welcome to the world of working mothers

[morningpaper]

tamula most of the workers at my daughter's nursery have their own children

I often work and earn LESS a month than my childcare costs - I'm sure it's very common

[Flossam]

err, going back to work isn't a choice for most of us. Paying for my child to be childminded full time would cost about 600 I worked out today. I'll be earning aroung 1200. So effectively half my wages would go on childcare. If I had the choice to take half pay and spend my time with my child I'd be jumping for joy. Sorry I can't be more sympathetic.

[soapbox]

Tamula

Why on earth do you think nannies should be diffierent to any other working parents?

All of us who use childcare are taking home substantially less than we were before we had children - in many cases much more than 50% less!

And to boot, you get the privilege that many parents would kill for of getting to take your child to work with you!!!!

Having a child changes your earning potential - that is a fact!

I have used a nanny with her own child but did not adjust her salary. Even if they came free, I would never use a nanny with their own child again. It just adds another layer of complications on what is already for me a complicated life.

There are plenty of nannies out there without children - I'll stick to them in future!

[bran]

I'm still not entirely clear what the choice is that other mothers have that you don't. It seems to me that you have more choice than most people, in that most mothers either work and pay for childcare or don't work, whereas you have both those choices plus an opportunity to earn money while still spending all day with your child.

[Flossam]

Lets face it, starting a thread on what is mainly a mum's internest site with 'disliking mothers' was never going to win you much sympathy...

[tamula]

soapbox - thanks really useful.

bran - dont need the sunglasses version of my quagmire, it aint working for me, however well it may work for you.

lockets - nothing nice or objective to say then why bother?

I posted to vent off, let off some steam, i know i'm not the first last or worse off in the world.

[tamula]

flossam,

didnt post for symapathy, however most people have been objective without attacking or being negative.

To all the negative posters pour yourself a glass of red and take a chill pill.

[thewomanwhothoughtshewasahat]

sorry but if anything you at least have more choices. You could, if you wished, place your child in childcare, whilst you go to work. You would get the same salary as you got previously, and then spend a substantial part of it paying for the childcare. that's what most of us do. However, unlike the rest of us, you have the possibility of finding a job - for less pay - that you can take your child to. the vast majority don;t have that choice at all. FWIW I have employed a qualified experience nanny with her own child and paid her about 70-80 per cent of teh going rate for someone with her professional background. It was a bloody good deal for her compared with paying for childcare. it wa also extremely good for me as she was agreat nanny. I know it's a horrible shock when you go back to work after your first and do your sums, but it is the same for everyone. Try having two. I have been working for nothing for 2 years. I have 5 years' university education and 8 years professional experience. I earn nothing. (and I can't take dds to work with me)