Petition to stop Tesco's selling lads' mags

[SkaterGrrrrl]

www.gopetition.com/online/34857.html

[SkaterGrrrrl]

But onagar, I dont want women to be working in Tescos - I want them to be doing engaging, interesting work where their brains are valued over their bodies!

In a more equal society, where women were encouraged to become engineers or tree surgeons or pharmacists, we presumably would pay a woman more to do an honest days work than take her clothes off. (Read the "Why I became a feminist thread and see how many women were discouraged at school from doing maths or chemistry).

It's our current unequal state of affairs that gives young women the limited choice of glamour modelling soft porn photo shoots or a crappy checkout job.

[SkaterGrrrrl]

Whilst I agree with most of it as I said in my last post I just don't agree that educated grown men can be swayed in their opinion of women just because of pictures in a magazine. If a man is to have such a low opinion of women and a bad attitude towards them then I imagine it's less to do with a magazine and more that he is an ill-educated, ignorant, sexist bollox.

Scardy I take your point but I dont think grown men buy these "lads mags" - the audience seems to be teenaged boys who are still formulating their opinions on women and on sex, and are thus impressionable to the agenda being pushed in the magazines.

[nicknameunavailable]

Hi All, they are targetting Tesco because they recently banned a women (in Wales i think) from shoopping in one of their stores while she was wearing her pyjamas

[onagar]

I want them to be doing engaging, interesting work where their brains are valued over their bodies!>>

I'm all for that, but in the real world few people get that. We can't all have interesting careers. Most of the work I've done was about using my body to lift and carry things. The fact that I had a brain wasn't considered of any importance. Many men could say the same thing.

I personally think modelling is trivial and I don't see why anyone would think it was something to strive for, but some women seem to actively enjoy it and others seem to at least prefer it to 9 to 5 jobs. Encourage other things by all means, but all this banning is the wrong way.

[Scardypants]

EAM I get the point of the analogy and would naturally choose the seagull room but unlike the main focus of the two rooms in your analogy, Tesco has far many more distractions and if I walked into Tesco and found fifty men all standing infront of the mag section I'd walk straight back out. My point being that not every man who goes into a shop or even glimpses those mags will instantly get a semi and make me uncomfortable. It's not affording much credit to men really is it?

[msrisotto]

Whilst I agree with most of it as I said in my last post I just don't agree that educated grown men can be swayed in their opinion of women just because of pictures in a magazine.>>

Agree but it's the kids growing up seeing images like it, young impressionable teens and the normalisation of porn in society that mags like zoo/nuts inflict on us.

[Scardypants]

Agree MsR, said as much in my last post.

School run, bbl.

[ImSoNotTelling]

The "object" link that policywonk posted has a link to a number10 petition here which people may also like to sign.

The wording is also different to the Tesco one so some of the OPs petition naysayers may find that this petition represents their views better.

[ArcticRoll]

Signed

[ImSoNotTelling]

Oh bollocks no that object one is closed now.

Back to square 1

object should update their website...

[frankfrankly]

SkaterGrrrrl - you can read the full doc of Dr Papadopoulos' research here pages 9, 18, 37-8 and 85 particularly talk about lads mags and their effect.

Elephants - sea gull porn should be banned . But seriously... good analogy and I think it highlights the sense of threat there is when men are seemingly allowed to go where ever their minds want with porn with the real person removed from them by modern media (mags/film/internet etc).

onagar - The point is that the lines between soft porn and lads mags have blurred. People who work at lads mags admit that over the last 10-15yrs they have become much more sexualised and risky, to respond to demand. As for them going back to tesco - what I was trying to say that young working class women's lives are often hugely restricted. How about them going to work in law/finance/medicine etc etc rather than tesco?

And, young women going into glamour modeling, thinking they are going to end up like Jordan are hugely mistaken. One or two might, but the vast majority will end up in crappy cheap jobs getting their kit off for little financial reward. Modeling is physically demanding and hard work, it's not a glamourous alternative to hard work elsewhere.

[Scardypants]

Hi FF,

Do you think it's really a male/female thing regarding education and careers? I'd only be assuming because I don't have any concrete evidence but would I be very wrong in thinking that it's more and indivual thing? Lots of young lads leave school with not very good grades, career goals and not much direction just as girls do. Would it not be more to do with the school, parent, peers, individual desire to achive or strive for better?

I know generally there are more men in certain professions like you describe, though it is changing but can that really be attributed to sexism any more? Are we not far beyond that now?

I ask genuinely by the way in case my question comes across any way other than I intended.

[frankfrankly]

Hi Scardypants-

I think there are issues of social mobility in the UK which affect both men and women. I think there's some research which indicates it, but I've not got it to hand. But in that, I think young women are more disadvantaged than young men, because socially women are disadvantaged - earn less, less represented in politics, less represented in business etc. Of course there's an element of choice - women choosing to be p/t or at home with children - but a problem is that the world of work is still very much catering to men's needs, so it is harder for women to work flexibly, for example.

And so young women opt for glamour modeling/ sex work in a way that young men would not. The bottom line is that there is not the same market for them. What I feel frustrated about is that for women, there is a whole sector of low paid work which infringes on their physical self in a way that men never face. Obviously some models enjoy it, but I would like to see some research on the ones who struggle to make a living and the longer term affects on their sexuality and personal lives of working in that industry.

[Scardypants]

"the world of work is still very much catering to men's needs, so it is harder for women to work flexibly, for example" - Agree very strongly with that. I have choosen to go part-time mostly for this reason. My job is very much aimed towards the men. An acceptable work-life balance is far less achievable for my female colleagues and I because we have only, in the last 8-10 years, made moves to have our presence really felt and there still remains a lot of 'old school' thinkers (all men) running the show. Less than 10% of my colleagues are women. It takes a labour court hearing to get any headway and I work for a government body! (Ireland)

Sadly I can't disagree with anything else you said either.

Sorry for short reply but RL calling, bbl when I have a bit of time to myself.

[CowWatcher]

done.

[onagar]

Equal rights for women to work in real jobs is getting there. Around here I've noticed that many of the bin men are actually bin ladies.

I don't have a problem with that. It's good honest work and someone has to do it. Still, you can see why modelling might seem more attractive. Especially when there's snow on the ground and the bins are crawling with maggots. Next time I see one I'll ask why she didn't chose to be a doctor, lawyer or something equally fulfilling.

[SpringyWho]

Is there an age limit for buying these magazines? Or could any 10 year old take his pocket money in & come out with porn?

[Molesworth]

I support this petition. Have signed.

[pithyslicker]

If everyone has fulfilling jobs, who is going to empty the bins and work on the tills?

And I've never seen a bin-lady round these parts.

[SpeedyGonzalez]

Shiny: "The magazines aren't creating the problem. They are a symptom of it. The media reacts to what is going on in society."

Shiny, as someone who's worked in the media for the past (counts fingers) very many years , I vehemently disagree with that statement. The media is incredibly powerful, so much so that we usually don't notice the way it impacts our thoughts. Now that is real power. Advertisers don't spend their money lightly, and they still fork out for media advertising, because they recognise the power.

Try it out on yourself. Go on a total media-fast for a month, and make observations about your own thoughts, and anything else that appears relevant.

One thing that irritates me about these magazines is that they do have an impact on our lives and on the type of society that we all create. The saying 'no person is an island' is borne out here. It's the same as the fact that big city bonuses have inadvertently played a key role in pushing some people into poverty. How? Because people with more money than they need went out buying up properties and pricing 'ordinary' people out of the market. Consequently some of these 'ordinary' people virtually bankrupted themselves in order to afford the unaffordable. And then of course we all know about the role that played in the global financial crisis. Now, there are other issues at play, such as 'ordinary' people and their mortgage companies choosing to make bad financial decisions, as well as other causes of the UK's housing shortage. But the bonus issue has still played a significant role here. It's that butterfly effect.

Similarly, when women are publicly treated as sex objects rather than as whole persons, and that treatment is publicly endorsed (i.e. by not being challenged), it feeds into the overall situation where women have historically been treated as second class citizens, in a range of different ways. The existence of lads' mags, etc certainly isn't the sole cause of the maltreatment of women, but it doesn't challenge it, either. Nor is it a neutral participant in this matter. It contributes to the whole picture of female maltreatment, painting an unhealthy image of what it is to be female - which affects men and women, girls and boys.

[antoinettechigur]

The women in these magazines don't typically make a career out of it That's according to my sources in publishing mwahaha (and the book Living Dolls - great reading). So many young women are willing to give away images of themselves because they think, wrongly, that it is a foot on the ladder to being a rich model, that there isn't a labour market for posing semi-nude. However it may lead women who have put all their eggs in that basket into harder porn or prostitution.

So this argumnent that it is about choice, maybe better than working in Tesco, doesn't stack up.

Loving the seagulls/softporn analogy EAM.