Petition to stop Tesco's selling lads' mags

[SkaterGrrrrl]

www.gopetition.com/online/34857.html

[SkaterGrrrrl]

Thanks Meg, have signed!

[megfleet]

Go to www.thefrontpagecampaign.org.uk to sign a petition to get lads mags age restricted and out fo sight, the petition will shortly be presented at Westminster by an MP.

[KittenOnline]

Just signed,thanks for info OP !

[lollyhop2girls]

Ps the thing about making 'girls' (WTF? Girls?! infantilizing) think they are in a competition to WIN a photo shoot! "Take your clothes off for us for free and be really sweet and friendly then once we've discovered which one of you our readers prefer, and therefore the one we will make most money out of, you can take your clothes off for us all over again... for free!!!" Yipppeeeee

Hmm, Im posting quite angrily today, quite unlike me!

[lollyhop2girls]

A lot of you have said that it's ok for women to be photographed for these magaizines (read; nuts/zoo and the like - happy to consider the fact that FHM may not fall under the same catagory) as long as they werent 'forced in to it'

A lot of people would see this as physical force or similar.

I would agrgue that women who go down this path HAVE been forced in to it through brainwashing; being made to think it is all they are worth.

Also; with regards to the arguement that no one minds when women have topless men in magazines so this is double standards... Men havent suffered hundreds of years of being oppressed and degraded because of their sex so it is NOT the same at all.

[Molesworth]

Kinderella, it'd be great to add those books to the 'reading list' thread

[SpeedyGonzalez]

.

[SpeedyGonzalez]

Oh lordy, Kinder. I'm already trying to read up on and understand about a million key issues in life. Now you've just added to my reading list. Thanks for the suggestions!

Lenin - I was having palpitations over your missed full-stop. Thank goodness you rectified your heinous error

[KinderellaTristabelle]

'Pornified: How porn is damaging our lives, our relationships and our families' by Pamela Paul.

I also liked 'Are Women Human?' by Catherine MacKinnon.

There are some good essays in there on pornography also.

[MyGoldenNotebook]

Yes to all points about exploitation. I just hate it when I say that I'm totally against pornography and people say that I'm being patronising towards the women involved.

Reading through this I feel more angry about it than ever. I've had so many infuriating conversations about this with men.

I'm now determined to really read into this subject and have some facts and statistics (I always fall down on this point - my opinions are mainly based on observations and discussion) to evidence my argument in a more powerful way. Is there a good book on the subject?

[dalloway]

done

[cocolepew]

Signed

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

Sorry I meant to say, yes to some people going into careers where they can exploit their target group. Sometimes there's a bit of a weird assumption that abusers or criminals in general are a bit think perhaps, but they know what they want and they set out to get it. It's grim.

Certainly all successful women haven't slept their way to success , it's just crap that success is still dangled in front of us in return for sleeping with some knobhead. Who knows if the success would ever really result anyway? Probably not. I decided it wasn't worth it anyway - thought everytime I looked at my heaving awards cabinet I'd have terrible flashbacks

[SpeedyGonzalez]

E&M - yes, I think you're right (though I have no experience of this - perhaps I'm a hag but it's apply that any woman should ever feel she has no option but to go along with such a proposition. I'm sure, also (despite your half joke!), that there are still many options of progression without subjecting oneself to exploitation like this. I'm not convinced that all successful women have had to sleep their way to success.

As for the small community thing - exactly, which is why it's so appalling that people like Richardson could get away with abusing girls like that. Everyone knows what he's doing, and yet nobody (with authority, I mean, not the young girls) challenges him. Despicable.

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

I think if someone did a survey it would be surprising how many women in all walks of life had been propositioned by someone promising to help them get ahead in their career. Or, indeed, threatening that without sleeping with certain people, they would get nowhere in their career. It's certainly happened to me. I said no by the way - wonder if that's why I'm unemployed now! (joke-ish)

Not surprising if some go along with it. Especially in something like modelling where the girls are usually young, along. Also it's a small community of people who all know each other, where a recommendation (or the opposite) counts for everything.

[SpeedyGonzalez]

Ugh, what a horrible story, E&M, I hadn't heard about that before. However, I am surprised by how candid he was about himself towards the end of the article - I think the Pope could learn a thing or two .

I wonder whether what happens is that dodgy men gravitate towards careers where they can exploit girls/ women, or once men are in such industries the loopholes create the settings through which some of them choose to abuse. Perhaps it's both.

I also do not understand this idea, which I've heard before, that girls are so desperate to become models that they'll put up with such exploitation. I suppose it's partly because they're mostly very young and inexperienced in life. Maybe I'm just an old git, which is why I think fame, riches and stardom are overrated and meaningless.

[AppleTreeWick]

Signed

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

Agree about a continuum of exploitation moving in fashion photography too. Did you see this about photographer Terry Richardson exploiting his models?

[KinderellaTristabelle]

Agree also Speedy on the impact sexual exploitation has.

Its one thing to be exploited for your labour in a badly paid job, quite another to be sexually exploited. Its a much more intimate and vulnerable part of your personality that is exposed.

[KinderellaTristabelle]

Scardypants, I'm glad.

SpeedyGonzalez, I agree totally. I think it depends on how free a choice it actually is in terms of having genuine alternatives. If that's your only vague hope of a comfortable life financially, then how empowering a choice is it really?

I don't think anyone should be berated for making the best choice they can under the circumstances, but lets not kid ourselves its 'empowerment' to be in a situation where the best choice you can make is one where you're exploited. If your 'choice' is made through a lack of viable alternatives then its hardly a free choice.

[SpeedyGonzalez]

KT, you're right about the race/ ethnicity thing - for example, not so long ago it was acceptable to publicise images of the 'stupid negro' - eyes rolling, gawping, unable to make an intelligent decision for themselves and dependent on intelligent whites for everything. If you watch Gone With The Wind (one of my favourite films, sadly), ALL the black characters are utterly despicable: Butterfly McQueen's lying, stupid, gullible, unreliable maidservant role; the male slave and female 'Mammy' house slave - both of whom remain fiercely loyal to their masters/ mistresses despite the fact that these very same people are fighting to keep them as slaves. And let's not even start on blaxploitation movies. That sort of symbolism would never be endorsed today unless done in an overtly ironic or critical manner.

But somehow when the issue is being female, people are allowed to get away with much more. I simply do not understand why. Have you all read the other thread in this section about people using 'girl' as an insult? I can see a close correlation there to this discussion.

Another point that's come to mind is the whole matter of how the sex industry treats women. I hear time and time again of how women enter the sex industry as a genuine choice, etc etc, and yet despite this apparent 'choice', abuse of these women is rife. Is it really acceptable for a woman to say: 'well it was my choice to become a lap dancer so even though I have to put up with sexual harassment from my male bosses I can handle it, and I feel empowered because it was my career decision'? Sexual harassment is not acceptable in an office job (or Tesco's ), is it? And the 'empowerment' argument reminds me of a story of an acting couple, where the woman was offered a part which involved nudity. She told her husband about it before accepting the role, and he said 'Honey, I don't have a problem with you taking this role, but just know that while you may be taking your clothes off for artistic purposes, to everyone else they'll just be looking at your tits.' Surely women deserve better than this?

Incidentally, the same sexual harassment/ abuse also happens in mainstream fashion modelling where young girls are subject to sexual abuse behind closed doors. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that male models are subjected to the same levels of abuse; anyone know about this aspect?

So while on the one hand I try to remain open-minded when people talk about women's genuine choices to work in the sex industry, there is such a wealth of evidence of abuse that it is extremely hard to see it as being on a par with work in other, non sex-related industries in terms of the impact it has on those women.