Autism society

[HDDD]

I was just on their website for something else and noticed their autism and gender identity page so clicked through....www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/what-is-autism/autism-and-gender-identity
"Gender identity and biological sex are different things. People are usually assigned a gender at birth according to their genitalia – male or female. "
NOT HELPING ANYONE THIS ASSIGNED BUSINESS!

I'm so angry that people who claim to understand autism don't see the way trans is very closely linked to difficulties with flexibility of thought, binary thinking as well as sensory discomfort or preferences.

It's always been known that certain fabrics are either irritating or calming, and how a child with autism might be drawn to them or dislike them.

But that's apparently bigoted now and it's their true authentic self

Sorry one more thing- a friend recently volunteered at a local nas group and said there was an awful lot of chat about trans and non binary. It's really getting out of hand.

5zeds
"High-functioning" is a complete misnomer. Most so-called high-functioning autistics have a load of support from partners, family, or a special interest that makes them money so they can buy in help/have an easier life so it's manageable. Those of us without those things really struggle.

Its soul destroying to constantly have this "oh it's not real autism"/not severe enough to be struggling or require help. Its like if someone is sad about something and you just tell them there's people who are worse off. Doesn't help, and makes them feel shit like they've no right to be struggling.
I've been awake for an hour wondering how the hell I keep living. This is the reality of so-called high-functioning autism. And you before anyone tries to tell me to go and seek mental health help - there isn't any, as autism can exclude you from services (ie. its autism, not mental health, or they say you need specialist autism mental health services, which don't exist.)

Its ridiculous that so many different needs are swept under the same umbrella. I shouldn't be pitted against someone with severe learning disabilities who needs constant care, when support needs are being considered.

Whilst I don't think the autism activist types represent me, they at least have made autism more known about so it's slightly easier to manage because some people will at least accept if you need to do things to cope. But there is still a huge amount you have to explain to people.

"High-functioning" is a complete misnomer. only because you are using it completely inaccurately, but that is done so often now that as a descriptor it’s pointless. It’s a good example of how the hijacking of language reduces its helpfulness.

WarriorN And it was a boy I taught who fitted the female stereotype who questioned his sex. Very sociable too. He was in our sen school but wasn't diagnosed with autism till the Tavistock suggested it (and they were really good, helping him to see that he was "just into fashion" as he had no issues with his body.)

I know a boy who appears to have a more subtle presentation of autism, also like this. Mother is incapable of critical thought (despite being not into sex stereotypes at all - how does this work?!) and lapped up the Mermaids rubbish, as did child's school. Cue child occasionally making statements about being a boy liking girl's things but this being ignored in favour of asserting "her" gender identity.
Its like seeing a ghastly car crash in slow motion.
Its important to remember that young children have the same inflexibility of thought and black and white thinking that is associated with autism. (Autism is a developmental disability, it interferes with development but doesn't necessarily prevent it. So autistic people may learn all sorts of things including complex thought, but a bit later on.)

@5zeds

"High-functioning" is a complete misnomer. only because you are using it completely inaccurately, but that is done so often now that as a descriptor it’s pointless. It’s a good example of how the hijacking of language reduces its helpfulness.

No, I'm not using it inaccurately. That's why I wrote "so-called high-functioning". Its you who appears to be implying that somehow being able to communicate (at least most of the time) isn't "real" autism or hugely disabling.

No. I wasn’t implying that somehow being able to communicate (at least most of the time) isn't "real" autism or hugely disabling.

You are obviously high functioning because you are able to post in the manner you do on this thread. It means you have an IQ over 80 NOT you can pass for neurotypical. It has nothing to do with how well you communicate.

High/low functioning referred to IQ

But Lemoncheesecake shows why Aspergers was so helpful as a diagnosis. Trying to advocate for LFA/classic autism is met with these accusations 'but I am hugely disabled too!' 'you are saying I don't have 'real' autism!'

I think the issue is people dont fit well in boxes so there is a lot of peoole who would sit on the cusp of either diagnosis. My son would probably get an aspergers diagnosis i think because he has an IQ over 80 and can talk and use a toilet so isnt severe or profound. He can read too.

But he goes to a special school where he has 2:1 support and spends a lot of time hand flapping, rocking and tip toe walking hasnt got a great concept of his own safety.

Elephantsparade I guess that is why they merged them although I think communication was more of a deciding factor between autism and aspergers. High functioning/low function referred to the diagnosis of autism only not aspergers.

When the new criteria came in it was suggested that some people with Aspergers would fall out of the autism diagnosis - it was suggested they should be 'grandfathered' in. But in reality I think that end of the support needs spectrum has stretched up and more people with lower support needs are getting diagnosed. Most do not have classic autism. Most now fall into the criteria that was previously Aspergers. And, aside from those who self diagnosed, autism advocates tend to fall almost exclusively into this group. It is one reason they are so disparaging towards parents and carers.

Diagnosis is about identifying populations. I think if you squeeze two diagnosis together (merge boxes) it doesn’t necessarily benefit all the contents and it makes it harder to find things.

You're absolutely right lemon.

Some of the pupils I've taught have amazingly creative minds and the "flexibility" theory doesn't apply to them.

Coming back to the Op, these are vulnerable young people trying to find their fit in the world, and the trans brigade are preying on them.

@AvaCallanach

What is autism?

Autism is an atypical neurodevelopmental condition in which the brain systems respond differently to sensory stimuli, and have communication differences compared to typically wired brains. This manifests in differences that can be observed during development in social interaction and communication skills, and in the ability to respond flexibly to situations or information.

In part this is because of the different experiences of the sensory world, which can appear too bright/ too busy/ too noisy in the way it is set up for the neurotypical majority, especially in the modern world of electric lights, cars etc. On the other hand that sensory world can bring immense joy to many autistic people for example in exploring textures, smells etc in a way that passes most neurotypical people by (and is pathologised - eg saying an autistic child shouldn't sniff items or run their fingers gently over and through textures).

In part this is because of the communication differences which mean that navigating the social world is hard. For example neurotypical people "parse" language a lot; they are very imprecise or inaccurate and don't even notice; this can cause bewilderment. For example telling a class of 5 year olds to write about "what they are going to do at Christmas". Strictly speaking, until they have done it, none of them knows what they are going to do at Christmas. They can probably predict with some degree of confidence based on past experience, conversations they have had etc. But this is the kind of parsing of language that can cause confusion to an autistic child because they can't answer that question. They could answer if they were given an accurate task such as "write about some things you think you might do this Christmas". This is a disablement caused to a certain extent by the vagaries of neurotypical language use which NT people use in a more flexible, less accurate way.

So autism is indeed about being wired differently. The only common features are differences in communication and interaction, and difficulties with flexibility of thought in comparison with NT people. Evidence of areas of deep focus - and consequent fascination and knowledge - is also usual (again pathologised and often described as 'obsessional interests').

IME this is an excellent description of autism, thank you @AvaCallanach.

For my autistic kids, the world is horribly ableist. There is only so much accommodation that can be made to ease their way in the world and often those accommodations are not enough to avoid or quell the physical discomfort/ inability/ pain of having to live in the world.

Mine reject the term Aspergers because of its Nazi roots. And one child has become keen to not see their autism as a disability, because they can mostly adjust to the world and they want to be "normal", just like many teens.

One child of mine is trans but doesn't accept that their feelings of "strangeness", "not feeling like a girl" are likely due to their autism rather than actually being born in the wrong body. But the trans ideology neatly fits in with their autistic way of thinking and provides a solution to the problem, so voilà!

PPs have referred to BPD earlier in the thread, but I cannot tell if they mean Bi-polar disorder or Borderline Personality disorder? The latter seems much more commonly diagnosed these days amongst teens (in our circles at least).

Would it have been better to have changed the name 'Aspergers' rather than blend diagnoses?

Probably. Not sure it's possible now though and no idea to what!

it would help my extreme irritation around frequent mispronunciation of the word...

I wonder what people think would have happened to Asperger and his patients if he hadn’t joined the nazi party?

@5zeds

We will die knowing that he will be reliant on the kindness and care of people who aren't related to him and can't ever love him as we do. So forgive me if I'm angry about the new activism that comes from highly articulate adults who - by anyone's standards - are doing 'ok'. They have jobs, relationships, children. I'm certainly not saying that people who present like this can't be on the autistic spectrum, but they do not speak for my son. And sadly, I've found that this new autism activism isn't generally at all interested in individuals like my son.

This reflects my feelings.

@GlomOfNit

I completely get what you're saying here.

My (5 year old) child is diagnosed autistic and I am awaiting assessment myself but fully expect to be diagnosed. My child masks expertly, is academically advanced but able to do well in mainstream school with support. She has her struggles of course, life isn't easy for her and we make lots of adaptations to help her. She should, we hope, be able to live a 'normal' independent life as an adult, just one with an understanding of her condition and the ability to make adjustments herself in order to manage.

I am a fully functioning adult. I had a successful career pre children, I can drive, I own a house, I'm in a happy marriage. I have a 'normal' life.

To compare my child (or me) to yours is insulting to yours and you quite frankly. Autism is indeed a spectrum, and it is all one condition but I cannot and would not ever consider our struggles or worries to be comparable to yours.

I'm glad there are more later diagnosed adults now who are able to speak up and say 'actually, we're autistic too and just because we function well doesn't mean we don't struggle'. For me, that's a great support. Its recognising children like me daughter too, who don't fit the stereotype. However, what is being lost is actually the fact that there are also lots and lots of people for whom autism isn't something that they can function normally with. It's a lifetime of care, a profound disability.

As for the whole gender/sex stuff. I've already decided that unless something major changes between now and my child being old enough for these lessons in school, she won't be attending them and stuff the consequences I don't care. I'm happy to teach her myself what being trans is and what it means, but I will not have her told it's possible to change sex or have her led into thinking that maybe 'ooh that's what's wrong with me, that's why I don't fit in!'. No. It's so easy for an autistic young person to be led in this way and I won't have it.

@LemonCheesecakeForTea

GlomOfNit So forgive me if I'm angry about the new activism that comes from highly articulate adults who - by anyone's standards - are doing 'ok'. They have jobs, relationships, children. I'm certainly not saying that people who present like this can't be on the autistic spectrum, but they do not speak for my son. And sadly, I've found that this new autism activism isn't generally at all interested in individuals like my son.

The problem is that so many different things are under the one label. Autism seems to be very poorly defined, in that regard. So someone like me, who can pass for neurotypical, IS different from you son, needing different things, yet it's all swept under the same label so it's impossible to coherently fight for the support that's needed as it's so, so varied.

I don't feel the autism activists you refer to represent me, either. My autism has interfered with me having a job, partner and children (I currently have none of these things, mid 30s). It has meant I have been vulnerable to poor treatment and abuse from men, and went unrecognised for so long I went through many dreadful experiences with various "services" (a friend of mine in the same boat ended up completing suicide). There is basically no support for autistic adults like me, and actually a lot of the support we'd need is around recognition of the challenges we face, for example a benefits system that recognises some people can only work part time due to disability. Or even being able to get a diagnosis.

Its just all so complicated because of how it massively interacts with social factors. I know someone who is likely on the spectrum, and struggles with things I do not, but they met a good partner at a young age and so had someone to organise the home and meals and things so they could focus on career and now earn a lot. In this instance I'm talking about a woman, but I strongly suspect it's much more likely the other way around, with autistic men more likely to be supported/organised (!) by a woman. (Did you know the suicide rate for autistic women is higher than for autistic men?)

LemonCheesecake

I absolutely agree, there is a massive problem with calling all experiences, across the spectrum, 'autism'. Perhaps this is something that's currently changing, though when 'Aspergers' was removed from DSM 5 that didn't really help...

LemonCheesecake and indeed any other adult here who has autism, no offence meant by my post.

Let's not forget that Mermaids claimed that a diagnosis of Autism could be a sign a child was trans. This targeting has been going on for some time.

I’m fascinated (in a horrified way) that not only is “born in the wrong body” presented as a better option than “neurological disability” for both children and parents, but people also don’t seem to question that. It (IMO) throws a light on a hierarchy that I wasn’t aware of.

@5zeds
“born in the wrong body” presented as a better option than “neurological disability”

That's a really interesting way of putting it. And especially for teenagers, feeling the usual social pressure to fit in, the idea that your body can be "fixed" so you can fit in with society and feel you belong - that's an attractive option.

Strangely though, my kids talk with disgust about research that could potentially lead to autism screening and they don't think that autism should be "fixed".

It’s a bit like it being more acceptable to be “born in the wrong body” than homosexual in some very homophobic societies. People do what works and what soothes distress. What are we doing that presents “being born in the wrong body” in the face of all scientific evidence as easier than being autistic or homosexual?

@likearoomwithoutaroof

I agree entirely with what you have said.

The only thing I would add is that my DC who is autistic presents as ‘high functioning’ (sorry I know this is a controversial term but for sake of understanding that’s what I’ll use here), attending mainstream school, has friendships and hobbies. But. And it’s a big but. When overloaded, when in a meltdown presents very differently. Language is lost, capacity is lost. It literally just goes. At that point requiring a high level of care.

It horrifies me that there is a link and a push to link autism with trans ideology. My child’s diversity is not to do with ‘gender’ (whatever the fuck that is). It’s to do with the brain, the view of the world and the sensory processing. It is NOT because they were born in the wrong bloody body.