The murder Sophie Moss, he'll serve 4 years

[katemuff]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9965751/Killer-choked-mother-two-33-death-jailed-four-years.html

So the "rough sex" defence continues, despite the assurance it was not admissible. Another vulnerable woman with mental health issues is killed, 2 motherless children left to deal with their pain and trauma for the rest of their lives. He get's 4 years.

Why don't women's lives matter?

[EmbarrassingAdmissions]

There are previous threads about strangulation in which there are references for clotting disorders relating to this practice. Even if the damage turns up later in life, it's a practice that can have unintended consequences.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

He's not quite ready for a chat about strangling women just yet though.

This here is where I really struggle. I had sex conversations with DD early. I spoke about consent and any relationship needing two people's consent and so on. [Very direct thoughts coming up - be warned]

I remember friends, not my parents, having the rule that if he held your head during a blow job, he wasn't a keeper. That hands around the neck was an absolute no. That blokes who insisted on shaving were weirdos and that if we didn't come first, we wouldn't shag them again. And if they were obsessed with anal, no thanks.

Do I have to tell my daughter all this? Or will her friends and her work it out like we did? And will she be too old to listen by the time I feel she's old enough to hear those words? Porn has ruined normal, healthy boundaries. Fun, good, enjoyable, consensual sex FFS. Even on here people write 'vanilla' and roll their eyes. It's really worrying.

[Viviennemary]

Even very light pressure to the neck can result in death. It goes without saying this is highly dangerous. I dont know enough about this case to say whether there was intent to kill or harm. But a woman is dead and children are without their mother.

[thefourgp]

“It's become normalised and women think they like it. But you're not allowed to say that though as women obviously know their own minds but you'll never convince me that women enjoy being choked during sex. They're doing it because men like it and well, porn.”

I agree. I’ve had some open sexual conversations with female friends and none have ever said they enjoy being strangled. I’ve never heard of a women strangling a man to death when having sex.

I think that’s true of a lot of sadistic, degrading and misogynistic sexual practices that years ago would be viewed as extreme and are becoming more normalised. Especially acts by men towards women. My ex DH pressured me into doing things I’ll never do with another man again and the ideas were taken from the porn he watched. I’m not anti porn. I just think the more readily available harder core stuff is distorting normal sexual relationships.

This murderer didn’t have a ‘kink’. He had a hatred of women and wanted to strangle one to death whilst fucking her. It’s a absolute travesty his actions are minimised by legal bodies.

[thefourgp]

Another good point @MrsTerryPratchett.

“ Porn has ruined normal, healthy boundaries. Fun, good, enjoyable, consensual sex FFS. Even on here people write 'vanilla' and roll their eyes. It's really worrying.”

I think it’s worrying how many people criticise ‘vanilla’ sex on the Mumsnet chat boards too.

[Clymene]

How many women are there with their hands around men's necks in 'breath play'? Bugger all I suspect.

Breath play is a euphemism for strangling but not until death. Just like unwanted sexual overtures is a euphemism for sexual harassment and sex with a woman who is asleep is rape.

[MrsOvertonsWindow]

Excellent post thefourgp
Women (and tragically) children are being groomed into believing that extreme porn practices designed to hurt, humiliate and degrade women (and sometimes men) are the norm and acceptable. You just have to look at some of the awful material that porn addicts have been allowed to promote to children and schools via various lobby groups who self identify as experts in sex education for children. It's no surprise that these groups target children and schools as it provides them with generations of young people who believe the trite "strangling is such wonderful sex play" as seen on this thread and elsewhere.

These young women then have no defences and when they're dead, the CPS and the judiciary happily go along with the "sex gone wrong" lies.

[Bordois]

Why the fuck do we always have to hear how "breathe play" is actually enjoyed by lots of women and is quite safe when done properly yadayadayada.

I

DON'T

CARE

I dont want to hear how much fun your kink is on a thread discussing the death of YET AGAIN another woman because of the "harmless fun"

Fuck off.

[PaleGreenGhost]

Absolutely agree Bordois.

[BelleOfTheProvince]

@Bordois

Why the fuck do we always have to hear how "breathe play" is actually enjoyed by lots of women and is quite safe when done properly yadayadayada.

I

DON'T

CARE

I dont want to hear how much fun your kink is on a thread discussing the death of YET AGAIN another woman because of the "harmless fun"

Fuck off.

Agree.

[blairresignationjam]

There are no words.

[Thelnebriati]

If anyone wants to challenge the sentence - even if its only as a as a protest - here's the relevant info;

• name of the person who got the sentence - Sam Pybus
• date the sentence was given - 7 September
• court where the case was held - Teesside Crown Court
• crime committed - manslaughter

//www.gov.uk/ask-crown-court-sentence-review

[DryHeave]

I read a book by Judy Melinek and was really astounded by how easy it is to strangle someone, compression of the artery rather than anything to do with the windpipe. I really believe no one should mess with it EVER.

[katemuff]

[quote Thelnebriati]If anyone wants to challenge the sentence - even if its only as a as a protest - here's the relevant info;

• name of the person who got the sentence - Sam Pybus
• date the sentence was given - 7 September
• court where the case was held - Teesside Crown Court
• crime committed - manslaughter

//www.gov.uk/ask-crown-court-sentence-review[/quote]
Done
Thanks

[MissLucyEyelesbarrow]

@DryHeave

I read a book by Judy Melinek and was really astounded by how easy it is to strangle someone, compression of the artery rather than anything to do with the windpipe. I really believe no one should mess with it EVER.

You don't even need to compress the artery, really. Just touching the carotid artery can trigger dangerous heart arrthymias, and compressing the side of the neck can also lead to strokes. I won't even let mine be touched during a massage!

I'm not a lawyer, but I do quite a lot of forensic/medico-legal work. From my perspective, there is inconsistency in how courts treat involuntary manslaughter.

If 2 young men have a drunken scuffle when the pubs kick out, and one lands a 'lucky' punch and kills the other, he often seems to get a lengthy sentence, even when it is accepted that they were both equally willing to fight and that neither intended to do serious harm. However, if you drive your car really recklessly and kill someone, or kill a woman during sex by strangulation, you seem to get off very lightly, even though the victim is a completely innocent party, unlike the opponent in a fight.

[Voice0fReason]

there are people that practice 'breath play' in a safer way with plenty of notice, preparation, enthusiastic consent and no intoxication.

Yes, it is safer when the woman doesn't end up dead. That is too low a bar.
There is no way that "breath play" could ever be described as safe.
It's not safe - women end up dead - it keeps happening. And the men who strangle them claim they did it with 'enthusiastic consent.' getting a reduced sentence as a result.

Name any other sex act that has a serious risk of death?

It's not a kink, it's abusive and the men who do it are dangerous.

[sticktomygun]

@AssassinatedBeauty that would be interesting to know i suspect its a high proportion

It is not something I would do or condone and I'm in agreement that this was a violent murder.

[EmbarrassingAdmissions]

Case studies from Manchester, UK.

White C, Martin G, Schofield AM, Majeed-Ariss R. 'I thought he was going to kill me': Analysis of 204 case files of adults reporting non-fatal strangulation as part of a sexual assault over a 3 year period. J Forensic Leg Med. 2021 Apr;79:102128. doi: 10.1016/j.jflm.2021.102128. Epub 2021 Feb 16. PMID: 33618205.

The study shows that NFS in sexual assault is a gendered crime, with most victims female and most assailants male. NFS is prevalent and this prevalence increases where the alleged perpetrator is a partner or ex-partner. Many are assaulted in their own homes, homes frequently shared with children. Visible NFS injuries are not the norm yet fear of death is not uncommon. Over 1 in 6 (15.7%) reported loss of consciousness suggesting that they were victims of a near lethal assault. That 27% had previously been a victim of NFS by the same alleged perpetrator indicates that there are considerable numbers potentially living in fear and at risk. Awareness of the risk of NFS, and an enhanced response to it, is required by those looking after victims and all those in the criminal justice system

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33618205/

Bichard H, Byrne C, Saville CWN, Coetzer R. The neuropsychological outcomes of non-fatal strangulation in domestic and sexual violence: A systematic review. Neuropsychol Rehabil. 2021 Jan 12:1-29. doi: 10.1080/09602011.2020.1868537. Epub ahead of print. PMID: 33432860.

Pathological changes included arterial dissection and stroke. Neurological consequences included loss of consciousness, indicating at least mild acquired brain injury, seizures, motor and speech disorders, and paralysis. Psychological outcomes included PTSD, depression, suicidality, and dissociation. Cognitive and behavioural sequelae were described less frequently, but included memory loss, increased aggression, compliance, and lack of help-seeking. However, no studies used formal neuropsychological assessment: the majority were medical case studies or based on self-report. Furthermore, few authors were able to control for possible confounds, including other physical violence and existing psychosocial difficulties. There is therefore a need for further neuropsychological research, focusing on cognitive and behavioural outcomes, using standardized tools, and control groups where possible. This is urgent, given societal normalization of strangulation, and legal systems which often do not reflect the act's severity and its consequences.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33432860/

Full paper

St Ivany A, Schminkey DL, Munro-Kramer ML. Acquired Brain Injuries and Intimate Partner Violence: A Situational Analysis of Help Seeking Barriers in Rural Northern New England. Glob Qual Nurs Res. 2021 Apr 13;8:23333936211008163. doi: 10.1177/23333936211008163. PMID: 33912624; PMCID: PMC8047928.

Findings included the concepts of paying social consequences and the normalization of violence. Non-fatal strangulation was described as increasingly related to violence and other areas. Repetitive acquired brain injuries can impair functioning needed to address violence and healthcare providers and advocates are generally unaware of the impact of acquired brain injuries.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8047928/

Full paper
Patch M, Anderson JC, Campbell JC. Injuries of Women Surviving Intimate Partner Strangulation and Subsequent Emergency Health Care Seeking: An Integrative Evidence Review. J Emerg Nurs. 2018;44(4):384-393. doi:10.1016/j.jen.2017.12.001

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6026083/

[KhoshkaKatya]

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/sep/08/unduly-lenient-jail-term-for-killing-during-sex-considered-for-appeal

[BettyFilous]

@SuperbLyrebird

I feel like this also gives people with this type of fetish a bad name. There are plenty of safe ways to perform this act

If you have daughters, I hope to god you don't ever spout that crap to them.

I remember seeing research posted on MN about brain injury caused by repeated throttling in a domestic violence context - it was similar to the effect of repeated TIAs (mini strokes). I don’t think anyone can claim it is safe - we simply don’t know as we don’t do before and after brain scans or cognitive functioning tests for women in couples that practice this fetish.

[BettyFilous]

Should have read to the end of the thread before posting. I can see EmbarrassingAdmissions has posted the research papers.

[MrsOvertonsWindow]

Thank you for that chilling research EmbarrassingAdmissions .
It is indeed a gendered crime aimed almost solely by men at women.
So distressing to see other women ignorantly promoting this as an acceptable "kink".

[DazzlePaintedBattlePants]

I will be having those conversations with my daughter that a PP mentioned. They are far too important to be left to anyone else.

I no longer trust the police or the judicial system. I can’t say that I wouldn’t take matters into my own hands if anything like that happened to my daughter. And I think the only way men will ever change is if they think that harm is likely to happen to them because of their behaviours. Modern justice and policing is no deterrent.

[MrsBobDylan]

If Sophie had been consulted, she would have said no to being choked to death.

We only have the word of a murderer that she consented to 'rough sex'. Even if that's true, did she know he would kill her?

We don't know what Sophie wanted. Maybe she wanted to see her children grow up, have a fulfilling career, a long happy life? He silenced her and should be sentenced accordingly.

[EmbarrassingAdmissions]

I remember seeing research posted on MN about brain injury caused by repeated throttling in a domestic violence context - it was similar to the effect of repeated TIAs (mini strokes)

The above research is largely more recent than the research posted previously but in line with it.

It's an unacknowledged problem in so-called 'mild' TBI where it's assumed women are exaggerating their symptoms but it's rare for the women to be questioned/forthcoming about this practice as either part of their domestic violence or (coerced or consensual) sex activities.