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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

ACAS confirms it has left Stonewall - the Times

158 replies

ChoosandChipsandSealingWax · 28/05/2021 06:10

“ A second high-profile public body has ditched a rights group’s scheme to encourage “diversity days” after concerns were raised that it gave unlawful advice on transgender rights.

Acas, the employment dispute service, confirmed to The Times that it had withdrawn “for cost reasons” from the diversity champions scheme run by Stonewall”

Link: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/stonewall-suffers-fresh-setback-in-trans-advice-row-j3p79gb2k

Share token via Sex Matters:
twitter.com/sexmattersorg/status/1398142285305597952?s=21

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WithLargeTableMouse · 29/05/2021 10:21

@AfternoonToffee

Whilst this is good news it is also a worry that the first two to go are two that should have such a grasp on the law that they should have seen through the SW misrepresentation. How could ACAS have offered impartial advice when they were stonewalled to the hilt?

Exactly, ACAS are supposed to be all about law and fair treatment in accordance with the law, they should never have fallen for Stonewall’s interpretation of the law in the first place. I’m really hoping unions start following ACAS and dropping Stonewall too.
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ANewCreation · 29/05/2021 11:11

TedImgoingmad

I can understand a school head or whatever not knowing the law, but ACAS and EHRC? It makes you think these bodies are either not fit for purpose, or something seriously untoward has happened that has allowed them to adopt Stonewall lies - let's call them what they are - and get away with it for so long.

This has been the winning strategy up to this point.

Organisation recognises it’s a sensitive area.
Gets an 'expert' in (from the usual suspects) to inform policy.
Unquestioningly accepts expert's views and doesn't fact check/challenge, even when organisation already has far more relevant expertise
Presents activist position as 'best practice'
Doubles down - 'going above and beyond the law'

We saw it also with the old NHS website page on gender dysphoria, saying that puberty blockers were just a pause etc. People naturally assume that because it is said by the NHS, ACAS, EHRC, CQC etc it must be legal, accurate and a middle of the road position

Acas advice on 'the T' (described as such in the report) is in absolute lockstep with Stonewall advice on 'the T'.

Why?

Acas commissioned some guidance on trans and intersex issues in 2017 which is still prominent on its website today and, while it has the usual disclaimers as not being the views of ACAS, the ideas make for familiar reading.

www.acas.org.uk/supporting-trans-employees-in-the-workplace

"Most participants interviewed for this research stated that the [Equality] Act is not currently fully trans or intersex-inclusive. Good practice was thus roundly agreed to be action which goes above and beyond what is enshrined in law."

Who influenced the bibliography?
GIRES.
Ehrc
A:gender
Stonewall
Hines S (2010), ‘Queerly situated? Exploring negotiations of trans queer subjectivities at work and within community spaces in the UK Gender’, Place & Culture, 17(5) pages 597-613
Etc

ACAS' examples of good practice employers were selected based on membership of Inclusive Employers OR inclusion in Stonewall’s Top 100 Employers

"Employers often devised policies with guidance from expert third parties such as GIRES, Inclusive Employers, the Scottish Trans Alliance or Stonewall. However, none discussed having consulted organisations which had a specific focus on intersex people. Others consulted working groups of trans employees to ensure policies were appropriately termed."

At no point in the report does there seem to be any awareness that there might be any people with other protected characteristics that might possibly be impacted by a transitioning colleague. Which is extraordinary when you think it is commissioned by a conciliation service.
The remit of the report was intended to also focus on people with intersex conditions but, time and again, it acknowledges that it fails to do so. Nobody consulted with the intersex organisations, nobody has any intersex policies.

Multiple times there are references to:
providing individual toilet cubicles for all staff or allowing staff to use facilities that align best with their gender identity
review dress codes or uniform policies at work for any potential negative implications for trans staff
have clear protocols for data management to avoid any non-consensual disclosure.

Good practice identified includes:

'A member of staff identifies as both male and female, so we got them 2 security passes, one in a male identity and one in a female identity… on each day they can choose which one they want to use depending on how they feel and that’s not a problem. For a building like [ours] which has ridiculous security, that was quite a big achievement.' (Public sector employer 2)

Tl:dr
What 'the T' wants, 'the T' gets.

It’s going to be incredibly difficult to unpick this stuff because they have been so enmeshed but backing away from Stonewall is a positive first step

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Nonmaquillee · 29/05/2021 11:24

My children’s head teacher believed that gender is a protected characteristic
I saw him scurrying off to google as I was on my way out 😂

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EmbarrassingAdmissions · 29/05/2021 13:15

@Nonmaquillee

My children’s head teacher believed that gender is a protected characteristic
I saw him scurrying off to google as I was on my way out 😂

It's going to be very difficult for a number of smart people, professionals, and the general public to understand how badly the MSM has colluded in spreading such misrepresentation.
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wellbehavedwomen · 29/05/2021 13:34

"We're talking about protected groups. We're talking about people that are protected on the basis of their sexuality, people that are protected on the basis of gender identity, people who are protected on the basis of race and that's why I think the analogy is apt."

I note her refusal to admit the fact that sex is a protected group, and that her determination to insist that people with prostates have every right to ignore/commandeer the rights of people with ovaries - rights protected because people with prostates are a proven risk to us, as well as proven to be stronger and faster - is therefore abuse of a protected group. Gender critical beliefs are in no way analogous to anti-Semetism, but her views are directly so. She is demonising women seeking to protect our rights in law. That's foul.

I also note her lie that 'gender identity' is a protected group. It is not. Gender reassignment is.

She is being dishonest, and she is being a hypocrite. And the report on Essex University has exposed these facts.

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ArabellaScott · 29/05/2021 14:19

Oh, this just came on.



Might make a playlist to accompany Diversity Champion Bingo.
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SpindleWhorl · 29/05/2021 15:49

I agree with pp that the BBC article which permits Nancy Kelley of Stonewall to make an absolute muppet of herself is refreshingly relatively spin-free.

The lead writer is Jessica Parker, who is on a stint as a BBC LGBT correspondent.

I know Jess Parker a little. One to watch. One to encourage. She's a good journalist I think.

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Nonmaquillee · 29/05/2021 18:02

@bitheby

I don't think I would trust Stonewall now whatever they do. I'll continue to back the LGB Alliance. I only use my Stonewall mug now when everything else is dirty.

Made me laugh

You could go one step further and put it by the bathroom sink for swilling out toothpaste water then spitting it out
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