ACAS confirms it has left Stonewall - the Times

[ChoosandChipsandSealingWax]

“ A second high-profile public body has ditched a rights group’s scheme to encourage “diversity days” after concerns were raised that it gave unlawful advice on transgender rights.

Acas, the employment dispute service, confirmed to The Times that it had withdrawn “for cost reasons” from the diversity champions scheme run by Stonewall”

Link: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/stonewall-suffers-fresh-setback-in-trans-advice-row-j3p79gb2k

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[AfternoonToffee]

@TedImgoingmad

Perhaps the lack of a decent explanation for dropping Stonewall, is mitigated by the lack of thanks. Usually, if there has been an amicable parting of ways, the parties would be issuing gushing, heartfelt praise and thanks for one another. There doesn't appear to be any of that, just a few luke warm remarks. You can read between the lines if you are "in the know"; and for the uninitiated, perhaps you are left with the impression that Stonewall is just not a good enough provider to be value for money.

Yes sometimes you have to look at what's not been said rather than what has been.

[YetAnotherSpartacus]

Fucking excellent! Long may it continue!

[Councilworker]

I believe a number of universities have let their memberships lapse or will not be renewing. This is through the grapevine though.

[AfternoonToffee]

@TedImgoingmad

It's an absolute scandal that ACAS, whose very existence is to know the bloody law on equality, didn't understand that Stonewall was lying to them. I can understand a school head or whatever not knowing the law, but ACAS and EHRC? It makes you think these bodies are either not fit for purpose, or something seriously untoward has happened that has allowed them to adopt Stonewall lies - let's call them what they are - and get away with it for so long.

I absolutely agree, it's chilling that it was able to happen.

[FightingtheFoo]

Does anyone else find it chilling to realise the extent to which Stonewall had managed to infiltrate so many bodies? The ECHR! ACAS! Schools! That in itself should have been a warning sign that something else was going on.

Ostensibly they were supposed to be advising only about employees but clearly were using this scheme to internally meddle in things far, far beyond their remit. And none of us had a clue.

[AfternoonToffee]

Foo chilling is absolutely the right way of putting it. With the likes of ACAS if you imbed SW law into internal policies then this will effect the advice given out. So by getting ACAS on board they can send out their spidery tentacles all over.

[InspiralCoalescenceRingdown]

I agree with PP that it's sad to see Stonewall fall.

But when you give bad advice that causes your clients to act unlawfully, well, that's very expensive advice indeed.

So it's no surprise that many organisations are seeing thirty pieces of silver as too costly.

Here's to many more budget reviews.

[Leafstamp]

@TedImgoingmad

Perhaps the lack of a decent explanation for dropping Stonewall, is mitigated by the lack of thanks. Usually, if there has been an amicable parting of ways, the parties would be issuing gushing, heartfelt praise and thanks for one another. There doesn't appear to be any of that, just a few luke warm remarks. You can read between the lines if you are "in the know"; and for the uninitiated, perhaps you are left with the impression that Stonewall is just not a good enough provider to be value for money.

Really good point, I agree.

I was also thinking that there will be conversations/memos going around the senior staff/General Counsels of these organisations. People talk, it’s human nature. And I think leaving Stonewall could be the next corporate social contagion.

[JustcameoutGC]

In their new strategy they are going after the school market. We must all fight to keep them out, and they have provided plenty of ammunition for us.

[Whatsnewpussyhat]

Great news.

It was allowed to get everywhere because all those higher up are connected. The 'chair' from one organisation moving to another etc.

Given the current financial climate, using budgets as an excuse to get rid of SW is a good way of not having to admit they made a mistake and have likely been breaking the law themselves whilst going back over policies.

[DdraigGoch]

@WeeTorag

I'm so happy about this. My Son's secondary school is a champ and I so badly want them to ditch Stonewall. I sent the head the EHRC story last week and various other "news" and he replied positively. I can't wait for Stonewall to be disbanded! 🤞

Or preferably that it returns to its original remit of campaigning for equality for homosexuals. "T" has no direct connection with "LGB" and this is a distraction in an age where gays still get thrown from roofs in some parts of the world.

[RadandMad]

Jubilant!

[Barracker]

Given the current financial climate, using budgets as an excuse to get rid of SW is a good way of not having to admit they made a mistake and have likely been breaking the law themselves whilst going back over policies.

This.
We all know 'budget reviews' are a euphemism.
The alternative is to effectively admit "we took illegal advice, created and implemented illegal policies, may have illegally discriminated against you as a result and here is our confession of liability, feel free to sue us"

[Imnobody4]

They're reading the writing on the wall. Getting out before Maya's and Allison's cases are heard.

[hedgehogger1]

I wish the school I work at wasn't a Stonewall champ school. So many girls are suddenly boys :(

[ArabellaScott]

Gosh, yes, it is quite a lot of money for a scheme that misrepresents the law, when you think about it, isn't it? [blinks]

Come on, everyone. Cost savings! Let's do it!

Domino time.

[EmbarrassingAdmissions]

Costs as the presenting reason are an excellent move.

I am concerned that organisations are hoping for a very quiet redemption narrative in which they agree never to talk about how badly they were mislead - without acknowledging it, they're likely to repeat the same mistakes. They need to admit to their lack of due diligence and explore why they didn't do it.

[GrimDamnFanjo]

It's a mess of their own making.
By following the money they've managed to really fuck things up.
A separate organisation for trans issues could be a way out but their brand is tarnished.

[ArabellaScott]

@TedImgoingmad

It's an absolute scandal that ACAS, whose very existence is to know the bloody law on equality, didn't understand that Stonewall was lying to them. I can understand a school head or whatever not knowing the law, but ACAS and EHRC? It makes you think these bodies are either not fit for purpose, or something seriously untoward has happened that has allowed them to adopt Stonewall lies - let's call them what they are - and get away with it for so long.

Hear, bloody hear.

There should be an enquiry into this. Perhaps one is brewing and that is why everyone is jumping ship.

[CatChant]

The dominoes are falling.

Wonderful news.

[PaperTrails]

Excellent news.

I shall save my biggest cheer for the day the Law Society does not renew its membership in a 'budget review'. So many law firms waving their Stonewall badges. Big names. A public enquiry can't come soon enough.

[ArabellaScott]

Anyone for a game of Diversity Champion Bingo?

Eyes down.

[Lovetomato]

So everybody, you do know how this is going to play out if many more organisations decide they ‘can’t afford’ being Stonewalled? The U.K. will start being compared to Poland or as a homophobic, right wing cesspit where LGBT+ citizens are no longer protected. And threads like these will be translated into ‘crowing’ and celebrating this (because of course many will not bother actually reading about WHY many of us have become disillusioned and disturbed by Stonewall’s underhand tactics)

But I’m hoping this could be the start of a cultural shift. I’m fed up of schools, for an example I’m familiar with, ‘outsourcing’ the inculcation of values such as tolerance, acceptance and anti-LGBT+ bullying to third party companies. I believe these values should be at the core of every school. I think far too many Heads have handed over the portfolio of ‘kindness’ to teachers, who go through these well trodden ‘procedures’ and tick box exercises, and then sit back and think ‘job done’.

What I want to see is the law being adhered to. ALL the equalities laws. That should be at the heart of an organisation. And this should feed in to a culture where everyone’s needs are catered for, accommodated, championed etc...

When I think of my own child’s school and it’s pride in being a ‘Silver’ ‘insert brand’ champion, I see mainly a lively presence on the school Twitter page, the same old tired posters going up in the corridor at various days/weeks/months of celebration/remembrance. Yet I still see homophobic bullying and intolerance, particularly for those kids who don’t particularly want to embrace all the identity politics stuff. It’s all very colourful but also seems a bit ineffectual and lacking in substance.

But it seems that this is repeated throughout many organisations and institutions. Lazy, virtue-signalling. Stonewall lost its way a long time ago. It’s time for organisations to embed real (and legally accurate) policies and procedures within their day-to-day operations that translate into actions that properly and positively impact on their employees and stakeholders. Not just another flag-waving, lanyard-donning exercise that is all about good PR.

I hope to see many more organisations decide that Stonewall ‘costs‘ too much.

[LizzieSiddal]

In their new strategy they are going after the school market. We must all fight to keep them out, and they have provided plenty of ammunition for us.

Did the Govt have issues very precise guidelines about organisations like this in Schools and what is and isn’t not allowed? If so we will have to monitor what they say,

[KittyValentine]

Excellent news.

I have no problem with EHRC and ACAS using the cost saving reason to leave - hopefully that will pave the way for and encourage smaller organisations (schools, local authorities etc) to leave without the fear of being bullied. Because Stonewall really are a bunch of bullies.