ACAS confirms it has left Stonewall - the Times

[ChoosandChipsandSealingWax]

“ A second high-profile public body has ditched a rights group’s scheme to encourage “diversity days” after concerns were raised that it gave unlawful advice on transgender rights.

Acas, the employment dispute service, confirmed to The Times that it had withdrawn “for cost reasons” from the diversity champions scheme run by Stonewall”

Link: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/stonewall-suffers-fresh-setback-in-trans-advice-row-j3p79gb2k

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[Nonmaquillee]

@bitheby

I don't think I would trust Stonewall now whatever they do. I'll continue to back the LGB Alliance. I only use my Stonewall mug now when everything else is dirty.

Made me laugh

You could go one step further and put it by the bathroom sink for swilling out toothpaste water then spitting it out

[SpindleWhorl]

I agree with pp that the BBC article which permits Nancy Kelley of Stonewall to make an absolute muppet of herself is refreshingly relatively spin-free.

The lead writer is Jessica Parker, who is on a stint as a BBC LGBT correspondent.

I know Jess Parker a little. One to watch. One to encourage. She's a good journalist I think.

[ArabellaScott]

Oh, this just came on.

Might make a playlist to accompany Diversity Champion Bingo.

[wellbehavedwomen]

"We're talking about protected groups. We're talking about people that are protected on the basis of their sexuality, people that are protected on the basis of gender identity, people who are protected on the basis of race and that's why I think the analogy is apt."

I note her refusal to admit the fact that sex is a protected group, and that her determination to insist that people with prostates have every right to ignore/commandeer the rights of people with ovaries - rights protected because people with prostates are a proven risk to us, as well as proven to be stronger and faster - is therefore abuse of a protected group. Gender critical beliefs are in no way analogous to anti-Semetism, but her views are directly so. She is demonising women seeking to protect our rights in law. That's foul.

I also note her lie that 'gender identity' is a protected group. It is not. Gender reassignment is.

She is being dishonest, and she is being a hypocrite. And the report on Essex University has exposed these facts.

[EmbarrassingAdmissions]

@Nonmaquillee

My children’s head teacher believed that gender is a protected characteristic
I saw him scurrying off to google as I was on my way out 😂

It's going to be very difficult for a number of smart people, professionals, and the general public to understand how badly the MSM has colluded in spreading such misrepresentation.

[Nonmaquillee]

My children’s head teacher believed that gender is a protected characteristic
I saw him scurrying off to google as I was on my way out 😂

[ANewCreation]

TedImgoingmad

I can understand a school head or whatever not knowing the law, but ACAS and EHRC? It makes you think these bodies are either not fit for purpose, or something seriously untoward has happened that has allowed them to adopt Stonewall lies - let's call them what they are - and get away with it for so long.

This has been the winning strategy up to this point.

Organisation recognises it’s a sensitive area.
Gets an 'expert' in (from the usual suspects) to inform policy.
Unquestioningly accepts expert's views and doesn't fact check/challenge, even when organisation already has far more relevant expertise
Presents activist position as 'best practice'
Doubles down - 'going above and beyond the law'

We saw it also with the old NHS website page on gender dysphoria, saying that puberty blockers were just a pause etc. People naturally assume that because it is said by the NHS, ACAS, EHRC, CQC etc it must be legal, accurate and a middle of the road position

Acas advice on 'the T' (described as such in the report) is in absolute lockstep with Stonewall advice on 'the T'.

Why?

Acas commissioned some guidance on trans and intersex issues in 2017 which is still prominent on its website today and, while it has the usual disclaimers as not being the views of ACAS, the ideas make for familiar reading.

www.acas.org.uk/supporting-trans-employees-in-the-workplace

"Most participants interviewed for this research stated that the [Equality] Act is not currently fully trans or intersex-inclusive. Good practice was thus roundly agreed to be action which goes above and beyond what is enshrined in law."

Who influenced the bibliography?
GIRES.
Ehrc
A:gender
Stonewall
Hines S (2010), ‘Queerly situated? Exploring negotiations of trans queer subjectivities at work and within community spaces in the UK Gender’, Place & Culture, 17(5) pages 597-613
Etc

ACAS' examples of good practice employers were selected based on membership of Inclusive Employers OR inclusion in Stonewall’s Top 100 Employers

"Employers often devised policies with guidance from expert third parties such as GIRES, Inclusive Employers, the Scottish Trans Alliance or Stonewall. However, none discussed having consulted organisations which had a specific focus on intersex people. Others consulted working groups of trans employees to ensure policies were appropriately termed."

At no point in the report does there seem to be any awareness that there might be any people with other protected characteristics that might possibly be impacted by a transitioning colleague. Which is extraordinary when you think it is commissioned by a conciliation service.
The remit of the report was intended to also focus on people with intersex conditions but, time and again, it acknowledges that it fails to do so. Nobody consulted with the intersex organisations, nobody has any intersex policies.

Multiple times there are references to:
providing individual toilet cubicles for all staff or allowing staff to use facilities that align best with their gender identity
review dress codes or uniform policies at work for any potential negative implications for trans staff
have clear protocols for data management to avoid any non-consensual disclosure.

Good practice identified includes:

'A member of staff identifies as both male and female, so we got them 2 security passes, one in a male identity and one in a female identity… on each day they can choose which one they want to use depending on how they feel and that’s not a problem. For a building like [ours] which has ridiculous security, that was quite a big achievement.' (Public sector employer 2)

Tl:dr
What 'the T' wants, 'the T' gets.

It’s going to be incredibly difficult to unpick this stuff because they have been so enmeshed but backing away from Stonewall is a positive first step

[WithLargeTableMouse]

@AfternoonToffee

Whilst this is good news it is also a worry that the first two to go are two that should have such a grasp on the law that they should have seen through the SW misrepresentation. How could ACAS have offered impartial advice when they were stonewalled to the hilt?

Exactly, ACAS are supposed to be all about law and fair treatment in accordance with the law, they should never have fallen for Stonewall’s interpretation of the law in the first place. I’m really hoping unions start following ACAS and dropping Stonewall too.

[ArabellaScott]

When is that one coming up, Chaz, do you know?

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

If MF wins her case their may well be some epic reverse ferreting going on.

[ArabellaScott]

'"With all beliefs including controversial beliefs there is a right to express those beliefs publicly and where they're harmful or damaging - whether it's anti-Semitic beliefs, gender critical beliefs, beliefs about disability - we have legal systems that are put in place for people who are harmed by that."'

So she's calling 'gender critical beliefs' controversial, harmful and damaging. And suggesting that the law agrees.

Interesting angle.

[ArabellaScott]

Yes, it's a bold new direction, isn't it, Belle?

[BelleClapper]

‘If you believe human beings can’t change sex you are a Nazi’ is pretty much going to peak everyone, I’d have thought.

[drinkingwineoutofamug]

www.proudemployers.org.uk/diversity-champions-programme

Found this. As I'm a bit behind the times many off you probably have seen this list
Apologies in advance
May print off and cross off as appropriate

[ArabellaScott]

After all the 'of course nobody believes you can actually change sex', there it is, on the Beeb, very matter of fact.

I predict some toast being dropped in horror as 98% of the population realise they've been inadvertently GC all along.

[thinkingaboutLangCleg]

Thanks for the link, Arabella.

The ACAS document is still recommending having clear guidance that states employees can use the toilet that they feel best suits their gender identity. So no progress there.

[ArabellaScott]

"gender critical beliefs" - that sex cannot be changed

I wonder how many people will be reading that BBC article and going - 'hang on, you what?'

[drinkingwineoutofamug]

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria

And the Rcn & GMC

Off to check if my trust - which so far has the equality act wrong but I can't speak out - or feel like it 😒 has fallen to stonewall as well

[Langsdestiny]

I was quite pleased in the way the BBC reported that interview.

[RedToothBrush]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57281448
Stonewall boss defends new strategy amid criticism

Stonewall head Nancy Kelley has defended the organisation's position amid a freedom of speech row and criticism from a founder.

Matthew Parris said in the Times that Stonewall had become "tangled up in the trans issue" and "cornered into an extremist stance".

But Ms Kelley told the BBC she was "really comfortable" with the direction the charity was going in.

She likened so-called "gender critical" beliefs to anti-Semitism.

The Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) has said its defence of the right to hold "gender critical beliefs" - that sex cannot be changed - "does not have an impact on our commitment to uphold the rights of transgender people".

So is she saying that the EHRC are similar to anti-semitics?

And is she saying that its ok to be sexist, racist, anti-jewish/muslim and homophobic whilst being a trans ally and to oppose this is like anti-semitism?

Cos the position Stonewall now have seems to be 'interesting' at best and downright full on offensive to just about everyone at worst.

Cos thats a

[RedToothBrush]

@ArabellaScott

www.stonewall.org.uk/stonewall-school-college-champion-membership

Stonewall - Membership fees

Band 1: 0-100 students: £150 + VAT per year with 2 free e-learning places

Band 2: 101-300 students: £275 + VAT per year with 4 free e-learning places

Band 3: 301-500 students: £375 + VAT per year with 6 free e-learning places

Band 4: 501-1,000 students: £450 + VAT per year with 8 free e-learning places

Band 5: 1,001-2,000 students: £550 + VAT per year with 12 free e-learning places

Band 6: More than 2,000 students: £800 + VAT per year with 20 free e-learning places

Post covid belts are going to get tightened all over the place.

Virtue Signalling Budgets will be one of the first things to go. They are a luxury that many businesses and organisations will be unable to afford going forward.

Which will resonant with the excuse of ACAS etc leaving for value for money reasons.

[stumbledin]

According to this article in Peronnel Today ACAS actually quit (didn't renew) being a diversity champion last year.

www.personneltoday.com/hr/stonewalls-diversity-scheme-accused-of-being-unlawful

Love this patronising quote from Stonewall:

“It’s great that EHRC can lead this vital work to support LGBTQ+ employees on their own and we continue to work with EHRC on a wide range of public policy matters.”

As though somehow they are the proud parents laying claim to something their child has acieved.

[bitheby]

Haha. Well I can't ceremoniously smash it. I'm terrible at washing up and need all the cups I can get

[Leafstamp]

I only use my Stonewall mug now when everything else is dirty.

Feminist act of the week!!

[bitheby]

I don't think I would trust Stonewall now whatever they do. I'll continue to back the LGB Alliance. I only use my Stonewall mug now when everything else is dirty.