Radical feminism and sperm donation

[klinghoffer]

Hello everyone!
I've namechanged, but been on here a while. I'm not a mum, but I am a woman who feels I'm now ready for children.
I've had awful experiences with men in relationships (not just romantic relationship, but family relations and friendships). I won't go into detail here, but it's really made me not want to have a relationship with another man again.
I want to have a baby, and for the past 3 years I've been thinking sperm donation would be my best option.
I'm also a radical feminist, but I'm wondering if this is the best way to go? I'd have to take a lot of time off of work, and financially I wouldn't be as stable as if I were to have a partner etc., but I would have support from my parents and my sister.
Are there any radical feminists who could give me some pointers as to whether they think I'm doing right by myself and my future child by not having a man involved?
Thanks in advance!

[EyesOpening]

That but about Germaine Greer is weird
“ I know Germaine Greer carried on about having children raised in an Italian farmhouse in The Female Eunuch. Her kids would live with a "local family" who would "work the house and garden". Germaine and her friends would pop in and out as suited them, and it would be so much better than the nuclear family with a stressed, overworked mother.” it’s like she would just be farming the mothering out to someone else for them to be in the same situation, rather than changing “the system”. (I haven’t read anything else about it so I may have got that wrong)

[DidoLamenting]

@EdgeOfACoin

I don't know if they're even good enough for that. I hope there's a chance in the next 5 years for scientists to figure out this bone marrow situation so women can reproduce with other women sooner rather than later 😊

Oh for goodness sake, I know you're joking but can you imagine the reception on here if a man made a similar joke about a woman?

I actually skew more conservative than other posters on this issue. I do think children benefit from having fathers. I also think that boys would probably find it easier to talk to a dad than a mum about certain issues (like what to do after their first wet dream or whatever). This isn't to say that most single mothers don't do a wonderful job raising sons, but my personal view is that children benefit from having decent, loving fathers around. (Obviously they do not benefit from having fathers that are not loving or decent.)

Personally, I am also uncomfortable with the idea of sperm donation for these sorts of situations, as I believe it feeds into the idea that children are a right and a commodity. However, this certainly isn't a 'radical feminist' perspective, just my own. I recognise that others on this board feel very differently.

I agree with everything you say. This does very much feel like children as a commodity. I asked what would OP do if she has a son? How does she explain to her son she views men as simply providers of sperm.

[klinghoffer]

@GrapefruitsAreNotTheOnlyFruit

Slightly different perspective here.

I think you are mistaken to think your child won't miss out by having a father in their lives. In the community I live in fathers are everywhere, dropping children at school, taking them to football, organising an extremely impressive training program for aspiring female cricketers. The list goes on. All my friends have children with men who are very much involved in their children's lives.

I doubt the men do as much child care or house work as the mothers but their impact is significant. From reading mumsnet you would think men never did anything probably because women post more about useless partners than decent ones.

I think that the way forward for women is not to do all the work of bringing up a child themselves but for men to step up and take their fair share of it. Then their sons will grow up with better attitudes too and their daughters will have higher expectations. That children have a role model of a caring, hardworking man who respects women is in my opinion very important to feminism.

I agree, men do need to step up and help more with the raising of their own children. In a perfect world that would happen, and it would be great but due to past traumatic experiences with men, I'm not interested in co-parenting. I want to have a child and raise it myself. I would have the support of family and friends, so I don't think my child would really be missing out on not having a father in their life. And if they did, I'd support them in wanting to contact the donor to see if they'd like a relationship.

[klinghoffer]

@DidoLamenting I don't. I'm simply going to use the sperm from a man who has chosen to donate his.

[klinghoffer]

@Sarahandduck18

You just need to work out the practicalities.

What is your employers maternity package?
Do you have enough in savings to top up maternity pay for 9/12 months off?
Research local childcare- childminders/nurseries and world out the logistics of getting to/from work/childcare.
If you have a job that involves out of 9-5 work do you have family who will regularly babysit?
What about respite outside of work- everyone needs a break!
Work out on entitled to if you could get any universal credit especially if you have high childcare costs (over £200 a week is typical). Also add in child benefit.
Check if your employer does childcare vouchers.

But in general I’d recommend having a baby alone vs with a man!

Thank you for these pointers!

[klinghoffer]

@EdgeOfACoin

I don't know if they're even good enough for that. I hope there's a chance in the next 5 years for scientists to figure out this bone marrow situation so women can reproduce with other women sooner rather than later 😊

Oh for goodness sake, I know you're joking but can you imagine the reception on here if a man made a similar joke about a woman?

I actually skew more conservative than other posters on this issue. I do think children benefit from having fathers. I also think that boys would probably find it easier to talk to a dad than a mum about certain issues (like what to do after their first wet dream or whatever). This isn't to say that most single mothers don't do a wonderful job raising sons, but my personal view is that children benefit from having decent, loving fathers around. (Obviously they do not benefit from having fathers that are not loving or decent.)

Personally, I am also uncomfortable with the idea of sperm donation for these sorts of situations, as I believe it feeds into the idea that children are a right and a commodity. However, this certainly isn't a 'radical feminist' perspective, just my own. I recognise that others on this board feel very differently.

It's good to have different opinions.

I don't believe misandry is real, so me making a little joke about men being good for nothing isn't harming them at all. Not in the same way men making jokes about women would be 😊

[klinghoffer]

@PoetaDeLosSandwiches

I would also recommend getting in touch with the Donor Conception Network. Not a feminist group, but it would give you the chance to talk with 'solo mums' about their experiences and also other women in a similar situation to yourself.

FWIW I have a young adult daughter who was conceived with donor sperm. Not having a father and not knowing her donor was never an issue for her. Obviously everyone is different, but it's not a given that the child will feel they are missing out.

Thank you, will do!

[RaspberryHartleys]

As OPs have asked, what would you do if you had a boy?

I mean this is the nicest possible way, but it is very, very clear that you have issues with men not just the patriarchy. I'd spend some time considering how you would feel at the scan if the midwife told you it was a boy personally

[klinghoffer]

@RaspberryHartleys

As OPs have asked, what would you do if you had a boy?

I mean this is the nicest possible way, but it is very, very clear that you have issues with men not just the patriarchy. I'd spend some time considering how you would feel at the scan if the midwife told you it was a boy personally

I'd be fine with having a boy 😊

[GrapefruitsAreNotTheOnlyFruit]

I suppose all I meant is that from a feminist perspective I think the best choice is to have a child with a man who seems intent on doing half the hard work that having a child entails. And appreciates that the things they really can't do like breast feeding are important. Whether they will follow through or not completely another question....

Anyway could be worth, if you haven't already trying with a counsellor to unpack some of these traumatic issues which mean you couldn't co-parent with a man and what it would mean if you had a boy if you had one.

I suppose lesbian couples also face the same dilemma of no father in their children's lives. And it happens to many other children too because their fathers leave.

[klinghoffer]

@GrapefruitsAreNotTheOnlyFruit

I suppose all I meant is that from a feminist perspective I think the best choice is to have a child with a man who seems intent on doing half the hard work that having a child entails. And appreciates that the things they really can't do like breast feeding are important. Whether they will follow through or not completely another question....

Anyway could be worth, if you haven't already trying with a counsellor to unpack some of these traumatic issues which mean you couldn't co-parent with a man and what it would mean if you had a boy if you had one.

I suppose lesbian couples also face the same dilemma of no father in their children's lives. And it happens to many other children too because their fathers leave.

I have already had therapy due to things men have done to me. The men in question never have, although they should have.

I've stated I wouldn't have an issue with my child being male. If I had a boy, they would have male members of family who could be a father figure to them. You bring up a great point, lesbians do raise their children without fathers, and women should be able to make the decision to raise a child alone by choice, instead of being left by a partner or having to leave.

This thread has been helpful. I'll definitely be using a sperm donor to have a child! Thanks for all of your opinions! 😊

[Goosefoot]

[quote klinghoffer]@Goosefoot a sperm donor is a sperm donor, they are biologically the child's father but they wouldn't legally be their father or have any involvement in the child's life. Therefore they aren't the child's father.

Someone mentioned if I could use a known donor, but the idea doesn't sit right with me. I'd prefer to go through an agency. If my future child would like to know if they have siblings and perhaps even meet their biological father, then that would be okay with me. However it would be up to the donor if he would want the children to make contact. Lots do but lots don't.[/quote]
This is just the point, a father is a father regardless of legal fatherhood or involvement. Using sperm donation doesn't mean there is no father, just that your child won't be in a position to know or have a relationship with him.

[Cwenthryth]

father is a father regardless of legal fatherhood or involvement
Agree - but OP said that English wasn’t her first language though so maybe that’s the confusion. It’s not uncommon for someone to say “he may be my father but he’s not my dad” for example. We all understand father to indicate the biological relationship but not necessarily the personal one, whereas I think OP might be using it more to mean dad.

[Billi77]

My daughter calls her biological father by his first name and says she has a father, not a Dad. He lives abroad and helped me make her. Should a relationship evolve, she knows where to find him as I’ve never hidden anything. He’s been to visit a few times and they have a real bond. Whilst it hasnt been entirely problem free, I do think the know donor route suits us.
I will say hgibf a child really amplifies how heteronormative the world around us is, particularly media. You have to look hard for books for example. People always ask who her Dad is, particularly other kids. She likes to have answers.
My thinking was, if my child can find out at 16 or 18 who her biological parents are, why not know from the start ?
And while feminists ‘praise’ me for going it alone and my feminism has definitely armed me, I’m not sure my decision to have my DD clashes with or comes from it. It’s very unique to the circumstances I was in at the time. And it’s the best decision I ever made. Go for it.

[BlackForestCake]

I am just wondering if the attitude of some posters would be different if the OP chose to get pregnant the traditional way and then just not have relationship with the father. Would that be different? Why?

[GrapefruitsAreNotTheOnlyFruit]

@BlackForestCake If you have a baby the traditional way you can't choose that the father isn't involved. If he is not abusive and wants to be involved then he will be able to gain parental responsibility following a paternity test even if the mother doesn't put him on the birth certificate.

[DidoLamenting]

@BlackForestCake

I am just wondering if the attitude of some posters would be different if the OP chose to get pregnant the traditional way and then just not have relationship with the father. Would that be different? Why?

For me no, as it would still be case of the OP viewing the father of her child as no more than a sperm producer.

If she were to meet a man who was happy to impregnate her but thereafter was happy that he would have no involvement in his child's life might even be more problematic than an anonymous donor from a sperm bank.

[Delphinium20]

@BlackForestCake

I am just wondering if the attitude of some posters would be different if the OP chose to get pregnant the traditional way and then just not have relationship with the father. Would that be different? Why?

I always go back to what will impact the child. A sperm donor can have hundreds of children, giving your child hundreds of siblings. I think this issue should be considered as well. Old fashioned baby making doesn't guarantee a child will have caring parents, but it does limit the ethical conundrums of multiples of siblings (do you want to always wonder if you're dating your half brother or sister?!?). A child with an absentee father or a sperm donor father still doesn't have a relationship with one parent. When I was single, I considered sperm donation...so I get the impulse. I also considered having a child w someone I wasn't romantically involved with but knew would be interested in parenting. The later was ultimately my preference because it seemed to best benefit future child. Now that I have children (w/ a romantic partner, so I ended up not pursuing single motherhood), I can see how much it means for them to know who their father is. They are also lucky in that he's involved and he's a good man, but of course, that's never guaranteed. I'm not saying sperm donation is wrong...but it's smart to look at who provides you their sperm to make a child (I'd say the same is true for old fashioned conception via sexual intercourse).

If you approach parenthood not as a right, but more of a responsibility towards child and mother (protecting women's bodies/reproduction), it's easier to live a feminist philosophy based on what's right for children...both your own AND those who are conceived via egg/sperm donation and/or surrogacy. I am VERY pro-choice regarding abortion/reproduction, but I don't see that as separated from the concept of planning for parenthood, which should consider future child AND protections for women.