Eve Appeal responds to criticism against TWAW

[MoreSchnitzelPlease]

I follow Eve Appeal on Instagram. It is a charity that raises awareness for gynaecological cancers. I did not expect this kind of response from them, and I am so hurt by their comments. How is it possible that trans women would need the services of this charity? How can you be tested for a gynaecological cancer when you do not possess female organs?

www.instagram.com/p/CCt6HK6lehL/?igshid=1t693pbic6ouz

How can a charity for gynecological cancer say that TWAW? It feels like I'm living in The Twilight Zone. I can't support a charity that goes against science. This feels like such a betrayal. Women are not disgusting for going against TWAW.

[ItsLateHumpty]

Opps cross posted OldCrone

[vivariumvivariumsvivaria]

We can't even have cancer up our chuffs without having to consider the feelings of people who are sad about their chuff?

There absolutely should be screening services for female people with gender differences, and those should be tailored with appropriate language and care.

But, that doesn't mean that cervical cancer affects males, Karen. She's a comedian, isn't she? Comedians are wokeymcwokeface. Even Frankie Boyle's TWAW these days.

[lady69]

I do hope transwomen still get their prostate checked. Women don’t have prostates. Its a man thing.

Only genuine cervical tissue can get cervical cancer. Inverted penis tissue could get inverted penis cancer. Best get that inverted penis smear test done i guess. To be sure.

[chatwoo]

@lady69

I do hope transwomen still get their prostate checked. Women don’t have prostates. Its a man thing.

Only genuine cervical tissue can get cervical cancer. Inverted penis tissue could get inverted penis cancer. Best get that inverted penis smear test done i guess. To be sure.

I wonder if all the men's health informational handouts etc, are being amended to "people with prostate, people with testicles" etc... I would assume it is, given it's the flip side of "people who have periods" etc.

[Gobb]

It's not about trans women, it's about trans men, especially trans men with cervical cancer. I actually agree. It's not the time, when trans men are dealing with cancer to start banging on about only women have cervixes.

[AnneOfQueenSables]

Have you read any of the thread Gobb? Because your post seems tone deaf if you have.

[Gobb]

Meh, I skimmed it. I'm sorry if I got it wrong.

[Gobb]

Well, I read it and I can't see how I was tone deaf.

[PheasantPlucker1]

Gobb the whole post was in response to the statement "only females get cervical cancer."

That statement is scientifically, medically and factually true.

Its unncessary drivel from a charity that is supposed to help people with cancer, not argue about personal beliefs.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

@OldCrone

I don't agree with Eve Appeal stating that it is gatekeeping to say that only women get cervical cancer. That doesn't mean that women who have had a hysterectomy are not women, as they suggested in their post. Who would suggest that was the case?

TRAs. If someone says "A person with a uterus is a woman" they think it means the same as "A person without a uterus is not a woman." It's a failure to understand basic logic. It's the same as when JK Rowling said "A person who menstruates is a woman" and they thought it meant "A person who doesn't menstruate is not a woman."

As you say...

I do wish they'd teach basic philosophy including logic.

The difference between necessary and sufficient for example. A period is sufficient but not necessary. XX chromosomes are necessary and sufficient. A head is necessary but not sufficient.

[2BthatUnnoticed]

Trans guys (being female) can get cervical cancer, and need these services. I support them in that, and am sure we all would.

But concern for trans guys is not behind the wholesale push to change language. If it was, men’s health services would talk about “people with prostrates” etc. They don’t. They say “men,” implying that trans men are not men.

Trans guys are invisibled in men’s health, the way women are being invisibled in women’s health.

[truthisarevolutionaryact]

It's so depressing that a charity focusing on women's gynae cancers are so in thrall to a member of staff who believes that men can magically become women that they let her trash the very foundation of the charity - just to be seen as woke.
There's a woman on that instagram account speaking about how awful that post makes her feel - it's interesting that it's only when men claim they feel invalidated that these idiots fall over themselves to sooth them - you want cervical cancer to belong to men - of course - have it.
When women speak about feeling 'invalidated' it's all denial.
I've posted on here very supportively about the Eve Appeal and am an active contributer of funds. No longer. They can hand over cervical and all the other women's gynae cancers to men who demand it for their personal validation - my support will now go elsewhere.

[Broomfondle]

if it barks like a dog, and looks like a dog...

It isn't a cervix barking here, it's HPV, physical trauma and pre-cancerous/cancerous cells.
The proposed solution is cancer screening - not cervical smears. They are different things.

I strongly feel that by making female sex unutterable in regards to transmen the TRA lobby are endangering their health. If they feel they can't access specific services such as cancer screening because of its basis in female health then the model used to treat their gender dysphoria is unsafe and getting in the way of more holistic care. They are more than their dysphoria, they have a physical body that needs to be cared for appropriately.
Making things unutterable or shameful or low priority or inducing shame around them does not bode well for their recognition in medicine and outcomes regarding them - as the history of women's health in medicine will show you.

[Vermeil]

@DamsonDragon

They get problems that may resemble the same findings under a microscope, but it’s not cervical cancer, and it’s not a gynaecological cancer.

if it barks like a dog, and looks like a dog...

If it has the same cellular structure as something then it is that something, regardless of personal belief. Thats the beauty of science, its often rather easy to identify if something is the same on a factual, definitive basis, as much of science can be measured in absolutes.

Regardless of whether its cervical cancer or not, it strongly supports that transwomen post surgery require regular smears as in a ideal world women would be getting periodically.

Nope.
Any oncologist will tell you that all cancers are different. A penile cancer will not have the same cellular structure as a cervical or vaginal cancer. You may as well say bowel cancer is the same as lung cancer. There’s a reason why there are so many different types of chemotherapy, to the point where two people with what seems to the layman to be the same cancer will not always have the same treatment regime.
Science is beautiful, but having a rudimentary grasp of it is essential if your going to use it as a talking point.

[IloveJKRowling]

Great post Vermeil. Specificity of language is important in healthcare - and biological sex matters and should not be obscured for any reason.

[ThinEndoftheWedge]

transwomen who have had gender confirmation surgery can get cervical cancer of the neo-vagina/cervix.

Made from an inverted penis.

[ThatsHowWeRowl]

if it barks like a dog, and looks like a dog...

Except it does neither of those things.

Cancer which has formed on penile tissue or tissue from another organ which has been surgically fashioned to look like a cervix (???) is not cervical cancer. You know when someone gets cervical cancer and then it spreads to, say, the liver? They are still cervical cancer cells in the liver, that person still has cervical cancer but the cancer cells are now in the liver. When a scientist does a liver biopsy to test for metastasis of cervical cancer, what they see is not liver cells, its cancerous cervical cells. Cancer on any tissue that is not cervical tissue is in no way shape or form cervical cancer.

A transwoman would not be able to pop down to the local GP and get a cervical smear from the practice nurse. It would be a different procedure carried out by someone trained in the area of gender reassignment surgery.

[ThatsHowWeRowl]

I used that example above because I think a lot of people think that cancer cells are all the same and its only named after the location. Cervical cancer cells and penile cancer cells are completely different and probably behave in completely different ways as well.

[ChattyLion]

I actually get incredibly frustrated by any argument that discourages anyone from accessing timely and appropriate health care due to social and societal reasons. Because who and why people are accessing or requiring healthcare has no impact on female safety or diminishing of female rights, as medical care is a private matter and has absolutely zero baring or impact on anyone else.


Damson your assertion isn’t backed up. Why would we bother to offer single sex wards, ability to request same sex doctors etc if what you say is true?

[ChattyLion]

Great post Broom

[NearlyGranny]

HPV is what causes cervical cancer. A large percentage of the sexually active population of both sexes carries HPV. It doesn't cause cancer in any organ in men. It's only a cancer risk if you have a cervix. Not a neo-cervix constructed from penis or colon tissue, not for anyone whatever the sex or even gender.

The whole furore around cervical cancer and who gets it and doesn't get it was a response to the weaponising of language that came about through lobbying by TRA groups which resulted in the erasure of the words 'woman' and 'women' from NHS and cancer charity leaflets where NHS boards and charities had 'fallen' to the neo-speak of activists.

Of course all adult, functionally literate, reasonably well-informed people whose first language is English know what a cervix is, whether or not they have one and what they need to do to about it (attend for smears, report symptoms to their HP).

The concern is for people who are not well-informed or have lower levels of literacy or speak and read English as a second or subsequent language. They may not know the word cervix but it's much more likely they will know the words woman and women and realise it concerns them or someone they love.

Erasing language about women from posters and leaflets could easily lead to growing unawareness of the risks and delays to diagnoses or even to preventable deaths.

This is not about hating trans-women or transmen, it's about informing and protecting the people who need smears and checks.

I notice the words man and men are happily entrenched in NHS and charity literature around prostate cancer. Why is it just women as a class who are being re-invented by a tiny but vocal minority and being deprived of the vocabulary we need to describe and discuss ourselves?

[EndoplasmicReticulum]

HPV can cause penile cancer in men, also anal cancer or throat cancer.

[ThinEndoftheWedge]

TRAs. If someone says "A person with a uterus is a woman" they think it means the same as "A person without a uterus is not a woman." It's a failure to understand basic logic. It's the same as when JK Rowling said "A person who menstruates is a woman" and they thought it meant "A person who doesn't menstruate is not a woman."

Divide and conquer.

Up until recently ‘period products for women’ was never assumed to mean women who don’t have periods - post menopausal, disease, pregnancy, etc weren’t women.

Most still know full well women not menstruating are women. Idiots who just drunk too much of the koolaid just pretend they don’t.

This is not the majority.

[Doyoumind]

Damson there is someone I keep seeing pushing this research/story on twitter. It's possibly you. Don't be so offensive as to come and tell women - all of whom have or have had a cervix, all of whom will have had smear tests and some of whom will have had precancerous cells or cancer detected - about their female bodies and what is and isn't female cancer.

[NearlyGranny]

Addendum: people who have had reconstructive surgery, for whatever reason, using skin or body parts grafted from other areas of their body clearly need protecting from cancer, too. Their surgeons need to give them specialised, personalised advice on their risks and instructions on what to do and where to go for help if they have symptoms. Their GPs need to be aware so they can be ready to offer help without the patient having to rehearse their entire medical history at every visit.

I would just call this best practice and expect it.