HR database sex and gender

[FemaleAndLearning]

What should a human resources database ask about your sex and gender and how should the questions be asked?
Personally I think there should be two questions, maybe on the same page.

I don't like the question what is your gender with answer options being male, female, non-binary and possibly prefer not to say. As this conflates sex and gender.

How can HR monitor sex discrimination if we only have gender?
What are HR actually asking the question for? Why bother?
Is there any guidance on this? From HR point of view being seen to be inclusive is what it is about, but what are the pitfalls?

Would something like this be acceptable?
What is your sex? Male, female
What is your gender? Man, woman, trans, non-binary, other (specify).

[Lysistrataknowsherstuff]

I used data protection principles when talking to our HR about the system - the principle of data minimisation is key. Why are they collecting this? What is the purpose? If they have no purpose then do they even have a lawful basis for collecting it in the first place.

Yes I'm a geek.

[FemaleAndLearning]

Are organisation obligated to collect information under the Equality Act if do it should record sex and gender reassignment? If they collect data outside this is it allowed under GDPR? I guess if it states why it is being collected and how it will be used this will cover them under GDPR?

Lysis I too like the geeky, technical approach.

[Jonb123]

Got to have "sex" for HR as its a protected characteristic that needs kept track of, gender isn't. ACAS are good, you could ask for some advice there in HR.

[bellinisurge]

Gender is not a protected characteristic. Shouldn't be collecting other info about them. There are specific rules about recording and handling information related to a person who as a gender recognition certificate. Those rules don't apply to everyone.

[bellinisurge]

"would a transwoman harrassing a female member of staff be recorded as make it female?"
Unless the transgender person has a GRC, they must be treated , in this scenario, as male, surely.

[FemaleAndLearning]

Jonb123
Had a quick look at ACAS. They talk a lot about Equality Protected characteristics. They have some trans documents that use the term cis. ACAS say it is okay to collect data on protected characteristics (no mention of things outside the Act) under certain conditions. They also say you can discriminate for a job if it is appropriate (female in a refuge, Catholic priest in a church).

They have a document you can download but I can't open word on my phone so will take a look tomorrow.
www.acas.org.uk/employer-decision-protected-characteristic/equality-and-diversity

[Purpleartichoke]

He only needs your sex, but if they don’t collect gender, I suppose some people will lie. So I do like collecting both. Gender can even be freeform

[Strangerthantruth]

documentcloud.adobe.com/link/review?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:76f52c85-727c-4a79-b7c3-99094e85b606
This is Stonewall guidance on what to do with your HR system in support of indoctrination. As you can see they suggest ways of persuading and bribing people to supply data. There is no legal or statutory requirement for the info and most organizations are pretty clueless as to what to do with it once they have collected it as it's very little use to anyone.

So a hundred people tell us they are gay? Who cares.

It's all voluntary and of little purpose and you are all completely at liberty to igore it.

[FemaleAndLearning]

Stranger
Thank you for that document. Funny that Stonewall mention non-binary in the glossary but don't have an option in their example questions to choose non-binary. Also they use male/female as gender choices, how can this be counted if this is the kind of document HR may refer to?

Is there any legal requirements that need to be met by HR?

[BettyFilous]

Our HR system only records “gender” in the personal details section. They’ve done away with sex (unless it is held in a background table that staff can’t see). I queried it with my local HR manager, who asked the top team. Apparently it took a lot of effort to implement the change and they don’t intend to change it back. I will be changing my response to the refused option.

[Strangerthantruth]

HR systems are two things, a database and a front end web tool. The database isnt really customisable, only the web based front end, so you can mask a sex field with the word gender on the web tool. It is expensive to develop customized web tools and as HR is an overhead it's a massive waste of money just to appease the identity politics.
Employees only see the front end, the employee self service. Managers see a bit more sometimes ie headcount data, but HR and payroll use the actual database. As I've said payroll only accepts male and female with ID and the rest is fluff put there as window dressing.

[Strangerthantruth]

Female and learning.

As you can see from the document identity data is optional and voluntary. No legal requirements at all for any of this. Reporting on identity data from these collection exercises is of very little use. It's a big so what. Reports are given to senior executives who spend a minute looking at it then move on and instantly forget it. It has no value whatsoever to the running of a business. Even Stonewall are scraping around in the document to try to articulate any benefits of all this invented work.

[RobinMoiraWhite]

Thankfully I’ve not had to come against gender identity/trans issues in our work place to challenge this though.

This is the important post from Buffalocauliflower.

The number of trans individuals is still so tiny that the (rather creepy) obsession with denying trans individuals recognition and a quiet life on the part of certain feminists is either a rather silly diversion for more important matters or deeply unpleasant. The effect on statistical recording of matters such as pay of accepting trans individuals in their affirmed gender will be negligible.

But sure, carry on demonising your chosen minority.

[isabellerossignol]

The effect on statistical recording of matters such as pay of accepting trans individuals in their affirmed gender will be negligible.

That's just not true and you must know it. In a workplace where a very highly paid male suddenly announces he must be classed as female it can skew the statistics on average salaries significantly. Particularly in a small organisation.

[Strangerthantruth]

If you think describing males as males is demonisation then that's on you.

[Strangerthantruth]

If trains all shuffled around the tracks without numbers on them who would care? Negligible.

[EmpressLangClegInChair]

Ignore the derailing....