Regardless of colour, do you think women's clothes are designed to make women look ridiculous?

[wrappedupinmyselflikeaspool]

I notice it more and more as I get older and I certainly used to wear ridiculous clothes myself when I was younger, but I don't think the same applies to menswear.
I look around on the street, on the train etc. And notice that a majority of women's body shapes do not suit the way women's clothing is designed to be tight and body hugging, stretchy, bright, cut out, cut up, decorative and ornamented. Heels, make up and dyed and teased hair add to an overall slightly comic effect. The women have to fit the clothes not the other way round. A minority of women look goodish in this get up and a minority wear t shirt and trousers and flats, as the men do.
Menswear in comparison is mostly practical shirts, trousers, jumpers, flat shoes. I started buying jumpers and socks and occasionally shirts from the menswear section a while ago. They are so much nicer.

[Gingernaut]

Mxyzptlk and the sheer quantity of it!

Once upon a time it was foundation, eyeshadow, lipstick, mascara and blusher.

Now it's a full moisurising routine, primer, concealers, foundation, contouring, eyeshadow, eyeliner, eyebrows (that's a whole 'regime in itself), blusher, wax lip liner to prevent 'feathering', multiple lip colours for different effects, bronzing and finish.

The sheer expense of a 'basic' make up look and the sheer amount of time girls and women are expected to put in is appalling.

The pressure to get it right is disgusting.

[wrappedupinmyselflikeaspool]

Geek yes I wonder why weddings mean heels? Why can't you be formal in ballet flats or brogues or Mary Janes? I did Birkies to a wedding recently and I do look a bit odd on the photos. It was a gay wedding though so I don't think that counts

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

I do think the answer to most foot problems is Doctor Marten

The most uncomfortable footwear I have owned by a considerable margin was a pair of Doc Marten boots. Awful and a huge waste of money.

I really can't take comments like "Women's shoes are generally awful" seriously. No they are not.

You don't like some of them - fair enough but this over- egging of "can't walk/ crippling" etc is so over done.

I don't wear particularly high heels, my shoes tend to be patent leather pumps or low heeled courts. They suit me, in every sense of the word.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

Why can't you be formal in ballet flats

And who says you can't? Or is this another example of feminist over exaggeration about how terrible it is to be a woman?

My work clothes are very formal/ super smart and tailored. I rarely wear a heel higher than a couple of centimetres. Not Birkenstocks (obviously I wouldn't be seen dead in them) It is perfectly possible to get smart, dressed up, flat shoes.

[DelphiniumBlue]

On the issue of ballet flats, they are not comfortable to wear all day for me, and they don't stay on when walking. They were fine when I was young, but now, not so much! And they are not good for your feet.

[wrappedupinmyselflikeaspool]

Delphinium I can't wear ballet flats either but they are so ubiquitous I thought that was just me. Good to hear you don't find them comfortable but I wonder why so many women wear them?

[millifiori]

There was a wonderful article by a woman in a magazine a few months ago where she wore a trouser suit to work with a shirt and tie. It was cut to fit a woman but in all other respects, equivalent to a man's work wear. She said it was so comfortable. She never worried if she was revealing anything. She didn't have to juggle handbag and other stuff or remember to pick up her phone etc as there were roomy pockets everywhere. She felt empowered. there were photos of her and she looked absolutely bloody birlliant in it, imo. But at work loads of eyebrows were raised - especially by other women, as she was so against the grain of heels and skirts and tights. If I can find it, I'll link it. It made me long for a woman's man's suit iykwim.

[wrappedupinmyselflikeaspool]

Yes, yes Lass you don't agree I get it, but we do and we are having fun discussing it. Why do you need to be so dismissive? We are not talking about your personal shoe choices but about culture, a broader phenomenon.

[millifiori]

I think it was this article. Really interesting reading. And does anyone else think she looks bloody gorgeous in it?

[millifiori]

I hate ballet flats. Need a bit of heel - it's more comfortable.

[wrappedupinmyselflikeaspool]

Millifiori id love a link to that! I've been trying jackets on in Top man and Burtons for ages but they are the wrong shape. I'd wear a trouser suit with proper pockets to work definitely but probably not a tie. I do know several women who wear shirts and ties in a sort of ironic fashion way though and they look great.

[spankhurst]

I wore ballet flats all one summer and gave myself plantar fasciastis. Bloody agony.
I found this summer's clothes really ugly, on the whole.

[wrappedupinmyselflikeaspool]

Thank you Milli that was a really interesting read. I think she has got round the way suits fit by wearing a size up in the jacket but I find that makes the sleeves massive for me. I'm quite short. Love the article though and I'll post it on Facebook later.

[DelphiniumBlue]

I think the issue is, for me at least, I'd like just to wear trainers/DMs/Birkies/comfy shoes all the time, but the accepted view is that they are not appropriate for women for all occasions. Whereas men can look appropriate/smart/sexy even in their ordinary every day flat lace up shoes. I wish I didn't feel somehow 'less' in comfy shoes, but I do, and I think that is the result of how today's society sees women. If you don't wear heels/pointy shoes for corporate events, for weddings and parties, you are viewed as having given up/not caring/odd.
i was in Berlin last year, and noticed that women dress very differently there - mostly smart, but much more practical - flat shoes, trousers, less makeup. It was quite an eye-opener - even amongst young women, very few were in high heels, compared with the norm in London.

[QuentinSummers]

Heels is difficult. I wear them everyday for work because I'm a short arse and otherwise people talk over my head. And heeled booths or shoes with an ankle strap are more comfortable than ballet pumps imo.
I don't think clothes are designed to look ridiculous but I do think they are restrictive due to no pockets etc.
Tights are a nightmare but I find it almost impossible to find trousers that fit me round the waist and bottom so dresses are much easier!

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

but I wonder why so many women wear them?

Because they like them? They are comfortable to wear? You can walk in them? They don't need your permission?

And you talk about me being dismissive.

[Trills]

That women are disproportionately affected by this is a reflection of women being seen as decorative objects

Yep, this is one of those situations where capitalism and the patriarchy get along very well (for each other, not for us).

Don't know what weddings you've been to where you couldn't wear flats though. It's not exactly Cannes and even Royal Ascot has no rules about shoe heels.

[wrappedupinmyselflikeaspool]

Delphinium that's interesting about Berlin. I used to go there a lot. It's quite hip and I think people can get away with freer sartorial choices in that atmosphere. I work in quite a hipster world so anything goes really but I know I'm in the minority.

Also I often wear odd shoes with a dress. I'm wearing Chelsea boots with a knee length dress right now. I sometimes wear Mary Janes with a dress but when I do I always feel I look like Ann Widdecome. I look nothing like her but you know sort of short and stout and shouty.

[DelphiniumBlue]

Very interesting article, Milli.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

Obviously I mean "they can walk in them" Not you.

[wrappedupinmyselflikeaspool]

Trills I don't think it's that you can't wear flats to a wedding but that if you do you look and feel out of place. It takes a lot of confidence to go against the grain at a public event where everyone is out to impress.

[PashPash]

I’d definitely vote somedyke as head of M&S clothing.

I buy hiking trousers ....6 pockets (2 zipped) and wear trainers and t shirts. Stopped caring too much what impression this gives. Hopefully one of a person with comfy feet and somewhere to put her phone.

[ProseccoMamam]

I think it’s more about people not being able to dress themselves properly for their body shape rather than the designers purposely making ‘wrong’ clothes. Nobody’s body is the same, so one girl could pull off a midi dress and heels whereas another looks best in high waisted jeans and a shirt.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

Don't know what weddings you've been to where you couldn't wear flats though. It's not exactly Cannes and even Royal Ascot has no rules about shoe heels

Quite. But it is so much fun complaining about how oppressed you are by not being able to wear Birkenstocks to a wedding.

Flat , smart shoes at a wedding are really not a big deal-especially if the rest of your outfit is smart. I wore navy patent flat shoes to a very posh wedding in London earlier this month. I don't think anyone was pointing and staring.

[geekaMaxima]

Lass if you comfortably wearing court shoes all day, then I'd wager you've been wearing them for years and your feet have adapted. Years of wearing pointed or heeled shoes (which push your toes forward into the front of a shoe) changes the alignment of your toe joints.

Women's shoes are far worse than men's for forcing toes into unnatural shapes. It's why "pretty" or "feminine" feet have sloped, bunched-in toes - it's an artifact of wearing constrictive shoes with a narrow toe box. Toe misalignment affects stance and balance, and puts strain on the knees, hips and back. Women who go barefoot rather than wear shoes simply don't have that foot shape (or the accompanying joint strain).

So yes, women's shoes are typically awful, particularly formal shoes, because they quite literally deform women's feet. Men's shoes don't do it to anywhere near the same extent. Just because an individual personally finds pointed or heeled shoes comfortable doesn't negate that fact.