Regardless of colour, do you think women's clothes are designed to make women look ridiculous?

[wrappedupinmyselflikeaspool]

I notice it more and more as I get older and I certainly used to wear ridiculous clothes myself when I was younger, but I don't think the same applies to menswear.
I look around on the street, on the train etc. And notice that a majority of women's body shapes do not suit the way women's clothing is designed to be tight and body hugging, stretchy, bright, cut out, cut up, decorative and ornamented. Heels, make up and dyed and teased hair add to an overall slightly comic effect. The women have to fit the clothes not the other way round. A minority of women look goodish in this get up and a minority wear t shirt and trousers and flats, as the men do.
Menswear in comparison is mostly practical shirts, trousers, jumpers, flat shoes. I started buying jumpers and socks and occasionally shirts from the menswear section a while ago. They are so much nicer.

[TitaniasCloset]

I hardly ever wear heels but I do have lots of pairs shoved up in the top of my wardrobe. I do feel pressure to wear them for certain occasions although I don't wear them on an everyday basis. I'm not working right now but if I was I would feel I need to wear heels and somehow get used to the pain. That's how I feel, I'm not making a point just saying how it feels for me.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

Sure, there's societal pressure, but I don't believe you don't have a true choice

Of course there is. I find the idea that someone (it is never clear who) is constantly policing what women wear and forcing them to wear clothes they don't want to) utterly bizarre.

You only have to look round any office, train, bus or high street to see it is not true. Women quite happily ignoring all these obligations and rules which are supposedly imposed on them.

So far as formal occasions I think there is huge delusion about how much anyone notices or cares what anyone else is wearing.

[deydododatdodontdeydo]

My other issue is that any sort of a heel bloody kills me and makes my feet bleed. But high heels are seen as more glamorous sexy and 'together'. So I still feel obliged to buy a pair from time to time. I look better in them, I'm short and they lengthen my leg, but I cannot wear their comfortably at all and given a true choice I wouldn't bother at all.

No true choice? Plenty of women, probably most of this forum, me included, never wear heels.
Why would you wear an item of clothing that "bloody kills you"?
Sure, there's societal pressure, but I don't believe you don't have a true choice.

[Ktown]

I agree that clothes look barmey. Particularly the milk maid off the shoulder tops and cut outs.
But women’s shoes are so much better and nicer. Flats are just great now. And healed ankle boots for me are completely comfy.

[TitaniasCloset]

Haven't read all the thread.

If you look at pin up and soft porn pictures of women, baring in mind most MTV videos and promotion for female singers images would come under soft porn nowadays, the women look and act silly. It's ridiculous.

They have done similar photo shoots where men act like pin ups, and it's just hilarious they look so silly. But female sexuality in this day and age means all of this, behaving in a hyper sexualised (silly) way. And we all buy into it and when we want to look sexy and attractive we act this way, in photos or in the bedroom.

My other issue is that any sort of a heel bloody kills me and makes my feet bleed. But high heels are seen as more glamorous sexy and 'together'. So I still feel obliged to buy a pair from time to time. I look better in them, I'm short and they lengthen my leg, but I cannot wear their comfortably at all and given a true choice I wouldn't bother at all.

But I don't give that much of a shit about how I'm supposed to look so I just won't do or wear these things, and that fuck you attitude comes with age I think.
Yes, fuck you fashion people!!!

[YetAnotherSpartacus]

So glad there are others who loathe synthetics.

Women's clothes are generally tighter fitting than mens

This annoys me too. Why must everything be stretch or otherwise tight fitting for women when men have the choice of clothes that just ... fit.

[MismatchedCat]

I am someone who is prepared to pay, but even then it's becoming increasingly difficult to find natural fibres. Even the higher priced shops like Hobbs, Jigsaw and Brora are full of synthetic blends and loosely attached buttons now.

There isn't really a mid range womenswear market anymore. It's just a choice between cheap fast fashion, expensive fast fashion
and super expensive margaret-howell type designer clothes.

It's all so depressing I had to buy a sewing machine and I'm now learning to make my own clothes.

[CountFosco]

The impracticality of most high street clorhes aimed at women is a discussion that comes up frequently on the S&B board. Funnily enough there most people agree with the OP and the discussion there is a lot less bad tempered with no Pangloss telling us everything is wonderful.

There are several issues, firstly the fairly recent move from natural fibres to synthetics that predominantly impacts women's clothing. It was initially driven by a failure in the cotton harvest and the manufacturers trying to maintain their margins. But mens clothes have not been affected this way, the first thing I do when I buy clothes is check the label for the textile mix, DH can quite safely assume his clothes are 100% cotton/wool. For women's clothes you have to leave the high street and go online or look at the more expensive brands. And that includes COS (which I love), for a lot of people the clothes there are more expensive than they can afford, there's no store nearby and P&P is expensive and returns are a faff (not helped by their European returns label).

Second pockets. Again this is a cost saving by manufacturers as a PP has said. Women's clothes are generally tighter fitting than mens and so there's a concern about 'destroying the line' that means there's less incentive to keep pockets. But I want a decent pocket to e.g. stick my house keys in when I do the school run or put my phone and a pen in when I go to a meeting at work. I don't want to carry a bag around in those situations. I have a pair of trousers that has 4 pockets, all of which are too small for my phone. What is the point of that?

Thirdly shoes. I do actually think things have got a bit better here recently since flat shoes are having a fashion moment. But we all know 'business attire' generally means more restrictive clothing for women. A pencil skirt and heels is not as practical as a pair of trousers and there are still some employers who insist women wear skirts and heels (Aren't flats banned from the red carpet at Cannes?). Same at formal social occasions, there's the expectation that women wear more colourful, restrictive and impractical clothing than men, not to mention the expectation that you get a new outfit for these events. For every wedding/funeral/anniversary party/formal meal out DH and I have been to for the last 20 years since we got married, DH has worn the same suit, the (admittedly expensive) suit he had made for our own wedding. I couldn't even guess how many outfits I've had in the same time but I know I've spent more money.

Now I like clothes and enjoy spending time and money on them. But there's no doubt that fast fashion results in daft excesses (the cold shoulder trend), a move from natural materials and a drive down in quality that disproportionately affects womens clothing. Trouble is, how many of us are prepared to actually pay the cost of British made, properly cut clothing made from natural materials and then to wear those clothes until they wear out?

[noeffingidea]

What did women used to do before clothes had 'stretch' in them?
Most women wore girdles, bras that shaped their breasts into torpedos and these waspy waist things, or even all in one body corselette things.
Nah, give me clothes with a bit of lycra in.
Somersetter good point about the makeup. Though I must live in a town of scruffs because I don't see that, at least not day to day. Same with high heels, I rarely see a woman wearing high heels. Perhaps it's different in a formal work enviroment, or going out at night.
In any case, with makeup I think the tide will turn eventually, women will get sick of the expense and cut back on it.

[wrappedupinmyselflikeaspool]

*derailed autocorrect

[wrappedupinmyselflikeaspool]

Can I just say a quick thanks to everyone who has offered their thoughts on this subject, it's a shame it's being detailed a bit because I've found all the responses interesting. but that's internet chat for you. These are just my thoughts on women's wear, my general musings about women's fashion. im really pleased it has sparked such a debate. Mumsnet has a lot of cultural power so maybe we will see more practical shoes, jackets and trousers with pockets and dresses with sleeves in future? I'm sure there must be people working in the fashion industry on mumsnet.
I'm signing off now for a well earned curry. See you soon. Wrapped

[SylviaPoe]

Well, tbh, stretch clothes have been around since the sixties.

So what did we did sixty years ago was make many of our own clothes.

[SylviaPoe]

What we did thirty years ago was make our own clothes.

[MsUnderstanding]

It's called fashion darlink. The tight, bright, ripped, ornamented look is a thing amongst some folks, a bit TOWIE, a bit trashy pop star, a bit Kardashian. It's all very hyper feminine and looks ridiculous to me too.

[tectonicplates]

I'd also like to add that having a bit of stretch means you can still wear the item if you gain or lose a bit of weight. If you have trousers with absolute zero stretch, you could gain two or three pounds and they'd already be uncomfortable and too tight. People here are complaining about impractical clothing, but stretch cotton is actually very practical for a number of reasons.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

Or maybe there aren't as many women as you seem to think who want completely shapeless clothes

Yes I think this may be true. And rather than accepting it there is a certain school of thought that has to keep pushing the line about how awful women's clothes are along with the exaggerated claims on here about being policed, impossibility of buying the clothes they want.

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

Basically you've put forward your dislike of fashion or bad fashion sense and then played the feminism card to try and add more weight to what you're saying and silence people who don't agree with you

I think that sums it up very succinctly.

[tectonicplates]

Also let's not forget that many people used to make their own clothes at home. Most people simply don't do this any more.

[JessicaEccles]

Lycra in clothes a) makes them more comfortable and means they move with you and b) stops your leggings going baggy at the knee - the curse of the 80s. It's great if you don't like restrictive clothing.

[tectonicplates]

And to use my common sense I'd say that stretch has been a thing only for 30 years max. What did we do before then?

Firstly, bra cup sizes have significantly increased in the last twenty or thirty years, so there are design issues which simply didn't exist before. Before that, it was rare for anyone to be above a DD. Secondly, most knitwear has always been a bit stretchy. Thirdly, until the 60s it was normal for most shops to have in-house seamstresses who would do alterations for you on the spot, free of charge. Last time I got a swing skirt hemmed at an alterations place, they charged me £15 - totally unfair that I should have to pay extra when others don't.

And even 2% elastane is too much for me.

Why? What exactly is the problem?

If you want to look all taught and tight good for you.

I don't look taught and tight at all. Believe it or not it is possible for clothing to be fitted, shapely and follow your curves without being tight.

But I want shapeless cool cotton. So do many other women. Why can't we have this?

Try going for companies aimed at older women. Maybe TopShop isn't for you. Or maybe there aren't as many women as you seem to think who want completely shapeless clothes.

[Somersetter]

I think this is a really interesting debate and it's a shame some posters are taking offence because it is clearly not meant to be anti-women.

I also increasingly notice the strangeness of women's clothes, high heels and make-up. There's almost an acceptance that make-up makes women look better, whereas a man wearing obvious make-up would look ridiculous and clown-like.

I'm curious what direction this will take in future - will clothing become less gendered or more? Will women stop wearing make-up or will men wear it too?

I agree men have less choice in clothes, but women have far more impractical clothing choices, many of which they feel obliged to wear (weddings, smart workplaces) and sometimes which they are actually compelled to wear for their jobs - look at the difference in what male and female flight attendants wear for example.

Anyway I'm wittering on now, but thanks for starting this thread.

[YetAnotherSpartacus]

Oh FGS, use your common sense

Is there any reason to be insulting? And to use my common sense I'd say that stretch has been a thing only for 30 years max. What did we do before then? And even 2% elastane is too much for me. If you want to look all taught and tight good for you. But I want shapeless cool cotton. So do many other women. Why can't we have this? And why do trousers have to be stretch for women and not men? My DP has a bigger bum than me but most of his trousers are cotton. Why not mine?

[tectonicplates]

Put it this way - when shopping for men I never see 'stretch'. Why just for women? Or, more to the point, why do I have to hunt for non stretch fabrics for me why they are the norm for him?

Oh FGS, use your common sense. Men don't have breasts. Women have a variety of different breast sizes, and also a variety of waist-to-hip ratios. Stretch fabric can fit women of a wide variety of body shapes, therefore it's more inclusive and better for a wider variety of customers. Non-stretch clothing is generally designed for women who are straight-up-and-down with small breasts. Stretch has been a godsend to those of us with curvy shapes. If you're not interested in fit then that's up to you, but don't start trying to take things away from those of us who otherwise wouldn't be able to buy anything at all.

Nobody said you can't have natural fibres. There's plenty of stretch/knitted cotton around, or t-shirts made of 95% cotton and 5% elastane.

[wrappedupinmyselflikeaspool]

Oh crepe I think you are misinterpreting my OP. It's there at the top so I won't repeat it here. And how am I silencing people? If you accuse me of thinking women are thick I think I have a right to reply. Don't take it personally because it's the fashion industry that I'm criticising. Women's wear versus menswear. Not women versus men. It's fine if you disagree just say so but no need to get personal.

[wrappedupinmyselflikeaspool]

Other door I also find a dress most comfortable but I have a lot of trouble finding a plain one with sleeves and pockets in a high street shop. I do my shopping online mostly because then you can search. Also finding a dress that has enough room for big boobs in a rigid fabric is difficult. I think the problem is mostly cheap, quick fashion.